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• Jul 22, 2022
• 11 min read

Is a PhD Worth It? The Pros and Cons of Getting a Doctorate

To get a PhD or not to get a PhD? That is the question.

Valerie David

Lifestyle and Career Expert

Reviewed by Hayley Ramsey

Entering the job market for the first time can be a stressful experience, especially if you don't feel completely prepared. When deciding how to take those first steps toward your ultimate career , and how to give yourself a chance at the best jobs, you may find yourself asking: “Should I do a PhD?”.

While academics looking forward to a life of learning may consider this a no-brainer, there are important factors for everyone to consider. Finances, job prospects and quality of life issues can greatly affect the success of furthering your education.

To help you decide if the time and effort of a PhD is worth it, here are the major benefits and disadvantages of getting that doctorate.

After four or more years of intellectual pursuits, adding a PhD may seem like overkill. Before you make your choice, let's look at all the benefits that are exclusive to earning the most advanced degree.

1. You can contribute new knowledge to the world

Embarking on a PhD programme means delving into your preferred subject in a much deeper way than you have in any of your previous studies. The beauty of this advanced degree is that it allows you to sail in uncharted waters. Your goal is to find new information, draw new conclusions and, hopefully, make a significant contribution to your field.

Your intensive research, travel, collaboration and study will lead you on an unpredictable path to telling a story that no one has heard before. For some students, this pursuit of knowledge and discovery is enough to make all the hard work of earning a PhD worth it.

2. You'll have access to more prestigious jobs

One of the key benefits of a PhD is that it opens doors to careers at the highest levels. This can include leadership positions in science and engineering, government roles in economics and political science, and prestigious teaching posts for English and arts majors. Even if an advanced degree isn't required for the job you want, that PhD can give you an extra air of authority in your field and an edge over other candidates.

Another obvious upside to continuing your postgraduate studies is that landing these powerful positions can lead to large financial rewards. Some areas of study, like medicine and the law, tend to be more lucrative, but it can also depend on the type of job. For example, a university professor or researcher post can pay well for a wide variety of disciplines. Check out sites like the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the National Careers Service to investigate potential salaries.

3. Employers look for candidates with your superior writing skills

A study arranged by the National Commission on Writing discovered that blue-chip businesses (long-standing companies with stable stock growth) are spending more than $3 billion a year on remedial writing course for current employees. This includes staff with undergraduate degrees.

So, when a hiring manager peruses your résumé and sees that you've earned a PhD, they'll know immediately that you've spent years honing your skills at compiling research, organizing mountains of data and writing about your results in a cohesive and persuasive way. This will clearly set you apart from your competition, while landing your dream job will prove that pursuing that advanced degree was worth it.

4. You'll improve on all your soft skills

While pursuing your undergraduate degree, you likely noticed that you were learning more than just the subject matter taught in each class. Completing your studies also required time management skills , focus and problem solving .

Getting a doctorate degree requires even more of the soft skills that employers look for in applicants . Your intensive study and finished thesis should lead to improvements in your problem solving, critical thinking , patience and adaptability . These desirable skills won't just help you land a job but also excel in whatever career you choose to pursue .

5. You'll collect an extensive network of professional colleagues

When weighing the pros and cons of earning a PhD, consider all the professional contacts you'll make during the course of your studies. Working closely with professors, department heads, experts in your field, as well as fellow researchers, helps you develop an important resource. This network of colleagues can provide continual assistance with references, job leads, career advice and collaboration.

6. You can wait for a more favorable job market

Job prospects may not look that promising when you've completed your undergraduate degree, or even after you've been in the workforce for a few years. While there's no guarantee things will improve after a delay, some students may appreciate the benefit of a steady graduate assistant salary while they work on enhancing their résumé with a doctorate.

If you couldn't get a good internship during or after your undergrad studies, the PhD work also gives you the time to build that professional network . These contacts could prove to be the key to breaking into a specialized or highly competitive field.

You may still be thinking about all that time and commitment and wondering, “Is a PhD worth it?”. While there are always positive results from improving your education, there are some downsides to getting your doctorate.

1. It's expensive

This is a substantial factor for many students when weighing the merits of pursuing a PhD versus entering the job market right away. If you already have student loans , continuing your education will just increase your burden and add substantial pressure when you eventually begin your job search.

If cost is a concern, investigate graduate assistant jobs that help with expenses. Some programmes offer tuition assistance in return for teaching or research work. For those who already work full time and are hoping a PhD will help them advance in their career, consider keeping that job and pursuing your studies on a part-time basis.

2. Getting a PhD can be a lonely experience

Despite your interactions with professors and other students, pursuing a doctoral degree is ultimately a solitary pursuit. Your thesis topic is unique to you, and you'll spend a lot of time alone doing research and writing. Your social life can suffer, especially if you're also working in addition to your studies.

Career experts often talk about the necessity of work-life balance for physical and mental health, and this is just as important for PhD students as anyone else. It may take you a little longer to complete your degree, but it's worth taking the time to visit family and hang out with your friends. These positive interactions can help you stay motivated through the most tedious parts of your work.

3. You'll experience extreme stress and frustration

Pursuing a PhD may seem like a noble and interesting endeavor, and extended life as a student can appear more attractive than wading into the job market. You must be aware, however, that getting a doctorate can be a very stressful and frustrating experience.

A topic that seemed intriguing at first may not live up to years of scrutiny, causing boredom at best or requiring a complete thesis change at worst. Not all programmes are well-run, either, and you may have a supervisor who is too critical, offers poor advice or is just unavailable and unhelpful.

The difficulties of a PhD programme lead to rather substantial dropout rates. In the US alone, only 57% of PhD students obtained their degree within a decade of enrolling. If you want to be in the successful half of those stats, take extra time to review your choice of supervisor and topic focus. Ask every professor you have for advice on making the right decisions and talk with current graduate students to see what their experience has been.

4. There may be limited job openings

While getting a PhD can qualify you for better and higher-paying jobs , it can also put you in a position where you're competing for an extremely limited number of job openings. This is especially true of university jobs, where the number of advanced degree graduates far outpaces the need for full-time instructors, researchers and administrators.

Earning your PhD with a very obscure thesis in a niche speciality can also limit your options. When there are only a handful of jobs that suit your expertise, and they're already occupied, it can make you feel that your doctorate was a waste of time. Consider the job market before you make decisions about getting another degree. If you're determined to study in a niche area, think ahead of time about related fields or industries where your knowledge and skills will also prove useful to employers.

5. There may be little to no financial reward

While most studies concur that having a PhD increases your income potential substantially over the lifetime of your career, it's not a guarantee of job security or a financial windfall. A study by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) found that 5 years after earning their doctorates , 45% of grads in Germany were still on temporary contracts and 13% ended up in lowly occupations.

Other European countries, including Slovakia, Belgium and Spain, had similar results. In the US, in fields like engineering, the difference in pay scales between employees with a master's degree and a PhD was a mere 7%. When that small bump in salary is weighed against the amount of debt taken on in order to get your degree, you may decide it's not worth it.

6. You could lose out on valuable job experience

New forms of technology continue to change how organizations operate, and those changes can happen fast. If you've already spent several years in school, toiling away in solitary study of obscure subjects can cause you to fall further behind in learning the skills you'll actually need for a future career.

Before you invest in getting a PhD, research your chosen field and learn which type of degree will give you the most value. Many scientific, financial and computing careers rely more on skills acquired on the job, rather than in coursework that can quickly become outdated.

Questions to ask yourself

You’ve listed out the pros and cons, but that still may not be enough to help make your decision. When it comes to a life-altering change like getting a doctorate, it’s okay to take enough time to ask yourself specific questions to ensure you’re making the right move. Consider asking yourself the following:

• Why do I want to get a PhD?
• Do I have the pre-requisites to move forward to a PhD?
• What are my strengths and limitations?
• Am I financially prepared?
• Am I mentally prepared?
• How will this affect my relationship with my family or friends?
• Where will I study?
• What am I trying to achieve?
• What jobs will be available to me after I get my PhD?
• Are there other options or avenues to consider?

Unfortunately, you may not have the answer to every one of these questions, because let’s face it, you don’t know what you don’t know. You might not know how it will affect your relationship with family or friends, but why not ask them? Reach out to those closest to you and see how you pursuing this degree could trickle down to them and allow that to play into your decision. Evaluate the answers to these questions and use it to help you make an educated decision on your future moving forward.

The best PhD degrees

If you’ve weighed out the pros and cons, asked all the important questions, and now you’re set on getting your PhD, congratulations! To help you along the way, let’s look at a list of the most valuable PhD programs to start you on your way to this degree.

• Criminal Justice
• Engineering
• Cybersecurity
• Business Administration

These fields are rapidly growing and are among the highest-paying doctorate degrees in 2022 , so they might be worth considering as you start your journey.

Key takeaways

Pursuing your PhD requires an incredible amount of commitment, and it's important to take the necessary time to make the decision. As you’re evaluating a doctorate degree, remember the following:

• Evaluate the pros and cons list right from the beginning to ensure you’re weighing out both sides of the coin.
• Ask yourself the necessary questions. A doctorate degree commitment can affect more than just you, so be sure you’re factoring that into your decision.
• Review specifically which PhD would be best for you and your field progression.
• Research your chosen field carefully and evaluate the job market before you finalize your degree choice.
• Once you’ve selected your degree, stay focused and stay driven. It’s going to be a hard few years, but it will be worth the work!

Who knows, this may prompt you to move on to postgraduate study — never stop achieving!

Have you decided to pursue your PhD, or are you still considering your options? Join us in the comments below and let us know what’s stopping or encouraging you from getting a PhD.

Originally published on July 24, 2019. Updated by Shalie Reich.

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Facility for Rare Isotope Beams

At michigan state university, investigating the conditions for a new stellar process.

A scientific research team studied how the barium-139 nucleus captures  neutrons in the stellar environment in an experiment at  Argonne National Laboratory ’s (ANL)  CARIBU facility using FRIB’s Summing Nal (SuN) detector . The team’s goal was to lessen uncertainties related to lanthanum production. Lanthanum is a rare earth element sensitive to intermediate neutron capture process (i process) conditions. Uncovering the conditions of the i process allows scientists to determine its required neutron density and reveal potential sites where it might occur. The team recently published its findings in  Physical Review Letters   (“First Study of the 139Ba(𝑛,𝛾)140Ba Reaction to Constrain the Conditions for the Astrophysical i Process”).

Artemis Spyrou , professor of physics at FRIB and in the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Michigan State University (MSU), and Dennis Mücher , professor of physics at the  University of Cologne in Germany, led the experiment. MSU is home to FRIB, the only accelerator-based U.S. Department of Energy Office of Science (DOE-SC) user facility on a university campus. FRIB is operated by MSU to support the mission of the DOE-SC Office of Nuclear Physics as one of 28 DOE-SC user facilities.

Combining global collaboration and world-class educational experiences

The experiment was a collaborative effort involving more than 30 scientists and students from around the world. Participating institutions included the  University of Victoria in Canada, the  University of Oslo in Norway, and the  University of Jyväskyla in Finland. 

“The collaboration is essential because everyone comes from different backgrounds with different areas of expertise,” Spyrou said. “Together, we’re much stronger. It’s really an intellectual sharing of that knowledge and bringing new ideas to the experiment.”

The international collaboration also included five FRIB graduate and two FRIB undergraduate students. FRIB is an educational resource for the next generation of science and technical talent. Students enrolled in nuclear physics at MSU can work with scientific researchers from around the world to conduct groundbreaking research in accelerator science, cryogenic engineering, and astrophysics. 

“Our students contribute to every aspect of the experiment, from transporting the instrumentation to unpacking and setting it up, then testing and calibrating it to make sure everything works,” Spyrou said. “Then, we all work together to identify what’s in the beam. Is it reasonable? Do we accept it? Once everything is set up and ready, we all take shifts.”

Measuring the i process 

Producing some of the heaviest elements found on Earth, like platinum and gold, requires stellar environments rich in neutrons. Inside stars, neutrons combine with an atomic nucleus to create a heavier nucleus. These nuclear reactions, called neutron capture processes, are what create these heavy elements. Two neutron capture processes are known to occur in stars: the rapid neutron capture process ( r process) and the slow neutron capture process ( s process). Yet, neither process can explain some astronomic observations, such as unusual abundance patterns found on very old stars. A new stellar process—the i process—may help. The i process represents neutron densities that fall between those of the r and s processes.

“Through this reaction we are constraining, we discovered that compared to what theory predicted, the amount of lanthanum is actually less,” said Spyrou. 

Spyrou said that combining lanthanum with other elements, like barium and europium, helps provide a signature of the i process. 

“It’s a new process, and we don’t know the conditions where the i process is happening. It’s all theoretical, so unless we constrain the nuclear physics, we will never find out,” Spyrou said. “This was the first strong constraint from the nuclear physics point of view that validates that yes, the i process should be making these elements under these conditions.”

Neutron capture processes are difficult to measure directly, Spyrou said. Indirect techniques, like the beta-Oslo and shape methods, help constrain neutron capture reaction rates in exotic  nuclei . These two methods formed the basis of the barium-139 nucleus experiment.

To measure the data, beams provided by ANL’s CARIBU facility produced a high-intensity beam and delivered it to the center of the SuN detector, a device that measures gamma rays emitted from decaying  isotope beams. This tool was pivotal in producing strong data constraints during the study.

“I developed SuN with my group at the National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory, the predecessor to FRIB,” Spyrou said. “It’s a very efficient and large detector. Basically, every gamma ray that comes out, we can detect. This is an advantage compared to other detectors, which are smaller.”

The first i process constraint paves the way for more research

Studying the barium-139 neutron capture was only the first step in discovering the conditions of the i  process. Mücher is starting a new program at the University of Cologne that aims to measure some significant i  process reactions directly. Spyrou said that she and her FRIB team plan to continue studying the i process through different reactions that can help constrain the production of different elements or neutron densities. They recently conducted an experiment at ANL to study the neodymium-151 neutron capture. This neutron capture is the dominant reaction for europium production.

This material is based upon work supported by the National Science Foundation.

Michigan State University operates the Facility for Rare Isotope Beams (FRIB) as a user facility for the U.S. Department of Energy Office of Science (DOE-SC), supporting the mission of the DOE-SC Office of Nuclear Physics. Hosting what is designed to be the most powerful heavy-ion accelerator, FRIB enables scientists to make discoveries about the properties of rare isotopes in order to better understand the physics of nuclei, nuclear astrophysics, fundamental interactions, and applications for society, including in medicine, homeland security, and industry.

The U.S. Department of Energy Office of Science is the single largest supporter of basic research in the physical sciences in the United States and is working to address some of today’s most pressing challenges. For more information, visit  energy.gov/science .

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U.S. News & World Report Ranks UMass Amherst College of Engineering Among Best Graduate Programs

The UMass Amherst College of Engineering has been ranked No. 48 overall among the 2024/2025 Best Graduate Schools for Engineering by U.S. News & World Report , and No. 27 among public graduate engineering programs. This represents a rise from last year, when the College of Engineering was ranked No. 55 overall and No. 31 among public engineering programs. The college has generally been rising in the rankings over the past several years, up from No. 65 in the 2019 rankings. In addition, the College of Engineering continues to be the No. 1 public engineering program in New England. 

National rankings published for specific subject areas within the College of Engineering include chemical engineering at No. 35; industrial at No. 36; computer at No. 38; materials at No. 40; environmental at No. 41; civil at No. 48; electrical at No. 53; mechanical at No. 56; and biomedical at No. 69.  The published rankings are based on reputational surveys of deans and industry leaders, as well as statistical indicators that assess the strength and quality of a school’s research, students, and faculty, including total number of PhDs granted, research expenditures, average GRE score, percentage of faculty members in the National Academy of Engineering, and more.   

Designed for prospective students looking to advance their education post-college, the Best Graduate Schools rankings evaluate programs in a variety of disciplines. By collecting graduate school data annually, U.S. News & World Report is able to present the latest enrollment numbers, job placement rates, faculty statistics and other essential quality indicators that help prospective students make informed decisions. That said, the U.S. News & World Report highlights the fact that: “A school’s Best Engineering Schools rank should be one consideration and not the lone determinant in where a student applies. The rankings assess academic quality and research success – factors that are universally important to prospective students. But personal considerations involving location, environment, strength of different specialties, and cost after tuition and financial aid are also very important.”

Find out more about how U.S. News ranks its graduate engineering programs here .

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Accepted Admissions Blog

Everything you need to know to get Accepted

July 3, 2019

Fully-Funded PhD Program at Harvard University: How I Got In

Harvard is one of those places that people often talk about with admiration but rarely as an aspiration. “Could I ever get into Harvard?” is usually a question asked with a great deal of doubt and trepidation. However, thousands have graduated from Harvard over its lengthy and illustrious history, and those people are real people. They simply had two traits that made them eligible candidates, and the rest was up to chance! Those traits were: (a) an impressive portfolio (including high grades and varied and committed experiences, including leadership roles , etc.) and (b) confidence that they could indeed be accepted. This latter element is perhaps the defining feature of students accepted to Harvard—the belief that they could ever get in!

Harvard (or other Ivy schools) aren’t for everyone all the time

Let’s be clear: we are not all, always, ready to go to Harvard, just because we believe in ourselves. I applied to Harvard in high school and was rejected—and the truth is, though I was a committed and intellectually curious student, and though I feel I would have thrived at Harvard, I know I didn’t have the portfolio they needed. My grades were good, but not stellar ; my extracurriculars and summer experiences existed, but were not extensive or impressive; and, my confidence led me to seek very little advice or writing consulting for my personal statement , so that I did not submit my best possible work.

Thinking you can’t get in at one point in your life might be true, but it does not mean you are not “Harvard/Ivy League material” ever . After completing college at a marvelous liberal arts university (an experience I would choose again any day!), I knew my portfolio had changed. I had very good grades and had fostered deep and lasting connections with professors; I had been a research assistant, a student newspaper writer and editor, and a writing tutor; I had learned a tremendous amount and felt confident that I could submit a writing sample I was proud of.

This time, in addition to the necessary confidence and portfolio, I sought a writing tutor to help make sure my statement of purpose could be the best one possible, and off my application went! Lo and behold, I got into my dream school for an MA: the University of Chicago, or the “Harvard of the Midwest.” Not only that, but I unexpectedly was awarded a fully-funded fellowship , including full tuition coverage AND a stipend! You never know what can happen!

The importance of strong essays

During the last year of my MA, I again felt ready to submit applications to competitive schools; I’d kept up my grades and activities, I’d worked hard on a polished writing sample, and I made sure to consult with others about the quality of my statement of purpose; my years as a college writing tutor had taught me that we all need editors, from the least to most experienced writers. All of that, plus a big dose of luck, won me a place in a fully-funded PhD program at Harvard, where I am currently working on my dissertation (when I’m not advising Accepted’s clients ). So remember: confidence, a great portfolio, and assistance with one’s writing—these are the three things in your power; the rest is up to the big H!

I want to add one last thought: When applying to MA and PhD programs (as opposed to undergraduate programs), there is an additional key to a positive portfolio: demonstrating interest in the work of particular scholars with whom you’d like to work. This means two things:

• Tailoring your statement of purpose to each school and its specific faculty members,
• Reaching out directly to these scholars in order to express interest in their work. Ask to schedule a phone call and/or an in-person meeting. There’s no better way to make yourself stand out than to make yourself known in person.

Remember: if you don’t do this, you are an anonymous paper application swimming in a sea of similarly anonymous applications. If you were on the admissions end, wouldn’t you feel much better accepting a student you’ve had extensive contact with, have possibly even met, who made a good impression?

Your Ivy League checklist for admissions success

So, to sum up, here is your checklist for preparing to apply to Ivy League school PhD programs, including Harvard:

• Honestly assess your own transcript: Are you seeing that the vast majority of your grades are A and A-? Is your GPA at the end of college a 3.7 or above? If you’ve answered YES to both of these questions, you might be a good candidate.
• Consider your overall profile: What does it look like? (I’ll address how one constructs a great CV in another post.) Have you been involved in a sustained way (i.e., for a year or more) in multiple activities? Have you assumed leadership roles in some of these? Have you demonstrated commitments to these pursuits? If so, you might be a good candidate!
• Think long and hard about your recommenders : Have you built sustained relationships with your previous teachers/professors? If you apply for a graduate degree, make sure your recommenders are known figures in your field, who know you well and can write from personal experience teaching or supervising you. Their credibility will build confidence in your application.
• Have confidence! If you don’t believe you can get accepted, you very well might not. Confidence (to be clear, I do not mean arrogance!) shines through a good application.

I’ll write more in an upcoming blogpost about how specifically to approach potential advisors and other faculty members during the admissions process. But for now, good luck!

Are you aiming for acceptance at a top MA or PhD program? Explore our Graduate School Admissions Consulting & Editing Services and work one-on-one with an expert advisor who will help you GET ACCEPTED.

With 30 years of career/admissions experience at four universities, including Cornell’s Johnson Graduate School of Business and College of Engineering,  Dr. Karin Ash  has met with thousands of recruiters seeking to hire the best students from leading schools. She has served as a member of the admissions committee, ensuring that the applicants who ultimately enroll are a good fit for the program and prime candidates for employers. Karin has been a Consultant with Accepted for 8 years and has facilitated students’ entry into top engineering, data science, MBA, and other STEM graduate MEng, MS, and PhD programs. Her clients have been accepted into MIT, the University of Chicago, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, UPenn, and USC.  Want Karin to help you get Accepted?  Click here to get in touch!

Related Resources:

• Get Your Game On: Prepping For Your Grad School ApplicationGet Your Game On: Prepping for Your Grad School Application , a free guide
• How to Write Your Master’s in Engineering Statement of Purpose
• How This Student Got Accepted to MIT’s Engineering Program and Landed a Job at Apple , podcast Episode 460

• 5 Fatal Flaws to Avoid in Your Graduate School Statement of Purpose , a free guide • Plotting Your Way to a PhD , a blog series • The Personal Statement That Got Me a Large Scholarship to Cambridge

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Home to some of the world’s most historic universities, the UK is also a popular postgraduate destination.

Nicknamed ‘the land of ideas’, Germany’s low tuition fees and excellent universities attract plenty of international PhD students.

Offering internationally-recognised universities in vibrant and welcoming cities, Canada is a great choice for a PhD abroad.

Australian universities are world-renowned, whilst the country’s climate and lifestyle offer plenty of other incentives for international students.

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With famous student cities like Paris and affordable tuition fees, France is a great choice for postgraduate study abroad.

With historic universities and a famously welcoming culture, the Republic of Ireland is an excellent (and popular) choice for PhD study abroad.

With over 2,000 universities providing postgraduate degrees, it’s no wonder the USA is the world’s most popular study abroad destination.

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I am currently debating whether to leave my PhD program- any advice?

TL;DR : Young graduate student in his first year of a PhD program who has lost a passion for the academic world. Seriously considering quitting but don't know what to do. Science background.

My background I'm 21-25, with a Science background, B.Sc in Physics. Took a year off between Undergrad and Grad school and worked full time as a research scientist. Theoretical background (most of my work has consisted of modelling). Strong quantitative and computer skills. Excel in presentation/project focused environments.

General Information I am currently finishing the second semester of my first year in a PhD program at a top tier US school in an engineering program. I have a full scholarship that pays for all of my tuition and a living stipend (typical graduate student stipend ~$1800 a month after taxes, so quite enough to live off of). I'm not a US citizen (from Canada), so I'm here on a student VISA, so if I decide to stop I have 2 weeks to leave the country. I cannot hold any other employment in the US while here on my VISA. My PhD consists of ~1.5 years of combined coursework and research, followed by a qualifier at the end of that period (research based), then into your thesis (doesn't have to be related to what your qualifier research was on).

Current Academic Situation I came first semester ready to start a new life...(first time moving away from home- did my undergrad where I was born). I did very well first semester (3.9/4.0 GPA) and research was on track (mostly lit. review). By the end of first semester however, I noticed that I was losing interest very quickly in both my coursework and research - it started to become very hard to get myself through to work on a daily basis. Went home Christmas break for a few weeks and came back to start my second semester and immediately noticed a big change. I started to struggle in my classes and fall behind on research. It wasn't that the material was too difficult, I just had no motivation to do it. No excuses here - just didn't really want to do it so I didn't. I reached the end of the semester and realized just how far behind I was. I am likely going to hit ~C average this semester (A last) and am drastically behind on research. I had weekly-biweekly meetings with my supervisor all semester, but I sort of hid just how bad things were going. Had a long meeting last week where I basically came clean on everything (said I was struggling in classes, behind on research) and the supervisor was very supportive. The supervisor believed in my potential and suggested I speak to a school counsellor and emphasized that this kind of thing was common for doctoral students.

Personal situation/feelings I come from a family where both my parents have PhDs. Although my parents have always been supportive and open to my life, I feel as though they would be very disappointed if I quit and this pressure is very real to me. I have tried to have the conversation with them and their attitude is mostly: "just put your head down and work through it, it's just a phase". Quite frankly most people seem to think it's a "phase" when I tell them. Outside of school my life is great. I'm not unhappy or depressed, I have hobbies, friends, I work out - it's just school that makes me feel this way. I just don't like the academic world at all any more. I HATE classes (always have) and where in the past research has been the saving grace keeping me interested in school, it now is losing a lot of it's appeal.

Basically, I feel no passion or drive for what I am doing any more. This for me is a huge problem. I'm not the kind of person who lacks passion in life. Quite the opposite in fact. Right now I have no such drive for school. I have a long term long distance relationship with someone from home that is incredibly happy and stable. They visited here many times since I moved and we are doing great. I would be lying if I said it wasn't a factor in me wanting to quit. (Having my partner move here is a lot more complicated). The relationship has been incredibly supportive and is very aware of my current situation and has maintained a very neutral stance, trying to play devils advocate wherever possible and trying to make sure it doesn't influence the decision. I should state that I am pretty sure if I had to choose between school and the relationship, I would choose the relationship immediately with no regrets.

I have just reached a point where I find myself doing just about anything else but school work. I'll get groceries, clean the apartment, watch TV etc... before doing any work. I'm trying to stick around for a couple of months for the summer (to see if not having classes changes anything) but since talking to my supervisor I'm already having doubts about even that. At this point, I feel like moving home and getting any job would make me happier than what I am doing.

Financial situation I have a few thousand dollars in the bank (enough to get me home /move out etc...) and zero debt. If I move back home, I can likely live with my parents for the first month to get back, then I'd be looking for a job and moving in with my partner. I realize having no debt puts me ahead of a lot of people and I'm not particularly concerned about the situation financially - I'm very lucky to have what I have and am aware of this.

So what's the deal? I know I have this amazing opportunity. I'm at a top tier school on a full scholarship. I wake up every day and get to work with the top minds in my field doing important research. I'm doing something a very small % of the population ever gets a chance at and yet still I have no motivation to do it. I'm not sure if I'm doing it for me any more, or I'm doing it so I don't let down other people in my life. My parents, mentors, friends, all the people who keep telling me how amazing this opportunity is. The more I look back, the more I realize that Grad school was what I did because I basically just didn't have another plan.

What would I like to do I'd love to find a job. I don't need to make a lot of money to be happy - I live off of 22k a year right now and am perfectly comfortable. Money isn't a major motivator for me. Working in the financial sector, doing quantitative risk analysis, banking, DoD, just about anything sounds more appealing than school to me. I know I'm smart and I've got a strong quantitative background combined with very good personal skills. I'm great with people and one of the things I HATE about the academic world is how under-used that part of my skill set feels.

I have no idea what to do. I want to quit, but I haven't. Maybe I shouldn't? I've been looking into options, but quite frankly I'd much prefer to have some kind of plan before quitting - at the very least this pays my living right now. I'd love advice from anyone. Someone who's been in this situation, someone who hasn't It doesn't matter.

I know that what I am doing does not make me happy. But I don't know what will. Please help.

Update two years later

I chose to leave school, and came home. My relationship fell apart but I found a decent job working for a tech startup and did that for about 1.5 years - I saved some money and took some time off and now I'm doing full time analytics consulting work for a website - It's working out well so far and I enjoy the freedom of it (work from home) etc. Though I do often wonder about what would have happened if I stayed, I don't regret it.

• graduate-school

• You mentioned (multiple times) how you hated classes in general - is it the same with the research you're doing? Because if thats the case, and a change of the area of research wouldn't affect your decision, then its certainly clear than you didn't really want Grad school. But if its just the coursework, I'll suggest that you bear it out, as its finite and not very important in the long run... –  TCSGrad Commented May 5, 2013 at 4:29
• 1 Questions should be written so that the questions and the answers they generate are useful to a broader community. The situation you are asking about is important, but your personal details might cloud the answer. –  Ben Norris Commented May 5, 2013 at 10:47
• 2 While the details of this question are not entirely generalizable, I think the overall situation is one a number of people are in, and so far all the answers have addressed the general situation rather than the specifics. –  Anonymous Mathematician Commented May 5, 2013 at 17:09
• 1 I answered a similar question: How should I deal with discouragement as a graduate student? –  Theresa Liao Commented May 7, 2013 at 22:08

15 Answers 15

Here is my general advice for graduate students who are thinking about quitting graduate school (and I'll sprinkle in some specific advice):

At one point or another, almost every graduate student wants to quit, so you're not alone . The fact that you're not alone doesn't solve any problems, but it may give you some peace of mind. The advice from your supportive advisor to seek out counseling is a very, very good one.

The decision to get a graduate degree is personal and different for everyone, but regardless it is a long-term decision that will probably have a significant effect on your future. The five or six years of your life spent doing it could open up many doors; that is not to say that other opportunities aren't worth considering. You really do have to do what is best for yourself, in the end.

Getting a PhD really does require passion (and in your case this is weaning right now). You can push through a pretty good chunk of time without it, but if you don't find the passion, it's going to be a long haul. If you were passionate and lost that, try to figure out what it was that you were passionate about before, and see if you can get back in the groove. One of my favorite Richard Feynman stories is about how he rebounded from a slump because he watched a spinning plate in the dining hall .

If you hate classes, make it a priority to finish them up quickly so you can concentrate on the research! Classes, while important, are not why you are in graduate school. A friend's advisor told his students that he would be upset if they were getting A+'s, meaning that they weren't spending enough time on research.

You can take time off from graduate school and come back later. This is hard to do (particularly if you have to leave the country), and you can't necessarily expect the same financial support when you return. But, you can do it, and if you need time off, take it. My suggestion for you if you are still on the fence about staying in grad school is to look at an internship somewhere for the summer where you are away from school and can clear your head. Then come back next semester.

All of my advice is kind of ignoring what may be your most important statement:

I want to quit, but I haven't.

If you've thought through all the reasons why you want to quit, and this is the answer, then you should take time off -- 'quit' is a harsh word, and not really a necessary one (see point 5). Your point is well taken that you shouldn't try to stick it out for anyone but yourself -- we all go through worries about disappointing others, but most people want you to be happy, and they will understand. You will almost certainly find a big weight lifted from your shoulders, and not extra pressure from those around you. Yes, having a plan before moving on is always a good idea, but I've been in a number of places in my life where I decided to do something before having a definite plan, and it all worked out in the end. Good luck!

• 14 To the contrary, I find the Feynman example misleading. I know quite a lot of people who are very passionate about some scientific stuff, but the discouragement comes from misalignment of it and topics or approaches at their PhDs. –  Piotr Migdal Commented Jun 19, 2013 at 11:16
• 1 @PiotrMigdal what you say is 100% right. –  Nafaa Boutefer Commented Sep 29, 2013 at 22:25
• 1 Best advise I got: Get over the stressful moment (finals, ...), perhaps wait until some break is (almost) over before thinking it though, and consider your situation calmly. –  vonbrand Commented Feb 28, 2016 at 1:40
• Love the Feynman anecdote! –  Joshua Wolff Commented May 21, 2020 at 3:01

Whatever you decide to do, just keep in mind that leaving a Ph.D. program because it's just not right for you does not represent any kind of failure on your part. I know plenty of people who didn't leave graduate school because they thought quitting would mean admitting that they couldn't hack it; this simply isn't true , and if your only reason for staying in school is that you don't want to disappoint your peers, parents, or advisor, then you should think long and hard about taking some time off from school and reassessing what you want to do.

Finish what you started.

I dropped out of a prestigious program 6 years ago, with much of the same reasoning:

• "The degree is just a piece of paper anyway"
• "If I want to learn things I can just learn them on my own"
• "What's the point? To spend that many years just to get a qualification to impress other people. I don't care about money, and if I want a job I can get a job now." (I was making $80/hour on contract work at the time.)
• "I'm planning on starting my own business"

But here I am, 6 years later, applying for grad school to give it another go.

Here are my reasons for going back: (I welcome people to correct me if I'm wrong about any of these!)

• Most full time employment is mindblowingly dull. As a student you don't fully appreciate this.
• A PhD is not very different from a job in the sense that you have to show up and do some work, most of which you don't necessarily want to do. The difference is, with a PhD you get something at the end, but with a job there is just endless tedium. Also with a graduate degree you get to use your brain a bit more.
• Your job prospects will be severely diminished, and your salary will be lower. It is fairly difficult to get a good research job without a graduate degree, and most opportunities outside of grunt work will be closed to you.
• In academia, you're used to working with smart people and having intelligent discussions, etc. If you leave and enter typical workforce, that goes away. There will always be a significant gap in academic potential between you and your colleagues and this will bother you because it means you are not hitting your potential and are effectively being under-utilized and under-paid.
• Feeling underutilized and unchallenged is very very bad. You will hate your job and therefore hate your life, and it all goes downhill from there..
• Everybody wants money. Most people that want money really badly, have at some point in their lives said "Nah, I don't care about money, money doesn't make you happy." Being broke doesn't make you happy either.
• The fact that you quit will forever haunt you. No amount of "Bill gates dropped out too" or "I'm too independent to need this" will make you feel better when you see your former classmates graduate with PhDs while you have to live with the fact that you started but gave up.
• In the workforce it doesn't always matter how smart you are. Most places I've interviewed have trouble hiding how impressed they were, and several have told me directly that I'm the best candidate they've ever seen. I always breezed through the most difficult interview questions and I've gotten offers from Google, Facebook, Amazon, Goldman Sachs, etc. BUT at the end of the day all of the jobs they offered were boring menial tasks. You could argue that it's possible to start with a menial job and then work your way up, but as I mentioned before, a PhD is also a job, why not just finish that?

Also, regarding your note on quantitative finance, please be very aware that the world of quantitative finance is very competitive and most places won't consider you if you don't have a PhD. I know because I tried several times to get a job doing quant work, but every firm I spoke with only offered back-end jobs doing menial SQL work. Your mileage may vary, but be warned that most people don't care about how good you think your quantitative skills are. (One fairly famous hedge fund manager told me very directly "everyone thinks they're going to be great at a new skill, so why would anyone risk their money on an unknown, unproven entity?".)

• 1 I just noticed this was asked in May 2013 and not May 2014, oops! Ah well. –  CaptainCodeman Commented Jun 5, 2014 at 14:28
• 3 I concur, the possibility of being underutilized and unchallenged in typical workplace is one major reason for me to strive to stay in academia. Working at big names like "Google, Facebook, Amazon, Goldman Sachs, etc." also boils down to boring menial tasks? Can you please elaborate on this? I don't have any industrial experience. –  sinoTrinity Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 3:46
• 8 @sinoTrinity What I did not know when I left uni, was that there is a huge division in the real world between "developers that come up with ideas that improve the business", (aka "researchers") and "developers that should do as they're told" (aka "programmers", "SQL developers", "engineers", ...) Generally speaking, most software jobs fall into the second category. e.g. I got a job at Goldman Sachs, and I thought I would be working on financial models, but it turned out they wanted me to write programs to draw bar charts showing their profit. Same with Google, they just wanted a mobile dev. –  CaptainCodeman Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 7:13
• 1 ok, but don't you acknowledge that you could have found a different team in Google that does something more interesting, or at Goldman. For example, you could have been doing risk analysis at Sachs or Search optmization at Google with a Masters. –  codekitty Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 18:55
• One thing I do want to add, however, is that getting a PhD in Japan and Korea is restrictive for prospects whereas not having a degree is not. (Just a point to consider for potential readers from those countries) –  virmaior Commented Sep 12, 2015 at 8:14

I'm surprised that both the question and the existing answers talk little about what used to motivate you to do research. You wrote, "where in the past research has been the saving grace keeping me interested in school, it now is losing a lot of its appeal". So what was that appeal, and how did it get lost?

Here are some possible answers, from my own experience; I'm sure there may be others in your case.

Did you get disillusioned about your field of research? Perhaps in the beginning you thought that if problems in this field were solved it would make a difference in the world, and now it seems that the big problems can't be solved and solving the small problems won't make a big difference?

Did you get disillusioned about academia? Did you have experiences that changed your view of academia? Did you come in the pursuit of truth and found that a lot of it is about the pursuit of publications?

Did you get disillusioned about your own abilities? Perhaps you were used to often being the best at what you were doing, and now you're surrounded by more smart people and your abilities seem less exceptional (and thus less motivating) in comparison?

Or perhaps your motivation had always been to please your parents and now that's not enough anymore?

I think having a clear understanding of what used to motivate you and why it stopped motivating you is a necessary and sufficient basis for the decision you're trying to make. If you lost interest in this particular field, you might have to look for a new field. If you lost the motivation that comes from a strong belief in your exceptional abilities, you might have to learn to enjoy being among the best and not necessarily the best. If your view of academia changed, you might try to find a place where academia is more how you'd like it to be, or if there doesn't seem to be one, perhaps academia isn't the right place for you. If you were only doing it for your parents, perhaps you should just leave. And if you lost interest because it turned out to be harder than you expected, then perhaps you should indeed "just put your head down and work through it, it's just a phase".

I think the key to sorting this out for yourself is to keep an open mind about your own motivations. Some of them may have been very pure and just got lost along the way and perhaps you can tap into them again; some of them may not seem so desirable now that you take a new look at them, and you may be glad not to have them anymore; but whatever they are, what's important is that you're honest about them to yourself and figure out how and why they changed, and that might allow you to see where they're leading you and whether staying or leaving is more in line with what's important to you now.

• 2 I like this post a lot because it clearly states the things almost everyone gets disillusioned about during a PhD: academia, your research topic, and your own potential. Losing faith in only one would be enough to affect you emotionally, but it's rarely just one. Accepting that both reaching your limits and the emotional journey (especially the negative emotions) are part of the program helps to stay positive. –  FvD Commented Aug 2, 2018 at 7:19

You are not alone.

Most graduate students are in their 20’s. Many have boy/girl friends and are away from their partners while in school. Many graduate students are international. They go abroad to study. They are away from their home countries. They study in a different environment/culture. They may have language problems. Fortunately, your situation is not that bad. Many graduate students go to graduate school as a family tradition. Their parents/relatives are academics. They were raised to be academics.

Most (if not all) graduate students have trouble with their course/research works in school one time or another. Many graduate students lose their interests in the school. Some quit. Some stay.

Your long post seems to suggest to me that you mixed your personal life with the graduate school life. We are human. We have emotions. We let our personal life interfere with other aspects of our life sometimes. We know we should not let it happen. But, it happens.

You did well in the first semester. Everything changed in the second one. Something happened. No one knows what happened except you. In other words, you are the only one who knows the answer.

I would suggest you to take a break, long or short, to figure out what you really want to do. Then, make your own decision.

There are good answers and commentaries here. I will not repeat them. I would emphasize something very important, your future is yours.

• 3 We know we should not let it happen — Huh? Why not? –  JeffE Commented May 7, 2013 at 6:41
• 6 @JeffE Sometimes, personal life would jeopardize the professional life. That’s what I mean. I am actually a victim. I gave up my academic life for personal reasons. I always regret it. Too late to change that. I try not to mention it in the answer because it’s too personal. –  Nobody Commented May 7, 2013 at 6:53

PhDs are not for everyone. That's why most top-tier schools have about a 50% retention rate, some closer to 25-30%. You need to discover what makes you passionate, and it might not be what a PhD will get you.

I have a friend who is currently getting his Bachelor's degree. His father is a rocket scientist for NASA, so naturally he went into the Physics program. It took only a couple semesters of C's and D's for him to realize Physics isn't for him, so he switched to Computer Science. Then he realized he hates Math, so he wanted to switch majors again.

All this time, though, he has had a creative outlet. He makes things, sometimes out of leather, sometimes out of steel; the other day he came to class with a clay pot he'd just finished. Toward the end of this last semester he went through with changing his major one last time. He already has too many CS credits to give up on that major altogether, but he's dropping the Math minor that comes de facto and is picking up an Art minor instead.

I've never seen him happier than he is now. He found what he's passionate about, and it's not what his father did. You have to discover your passion. And it sounds like the job you had back home is just that.

If you don't feel any passion or motivation after the second semester, I'd say you have to really take a hard look at if graduate school is something for you as you'd still have a few years to go. If you should quit or not firstly depends on what you want. You need to try and find out why you lost your passion. Was it there first, and did something cause it to leave? Where you ambivalent about graduate school, and now you found out it was not for you?

Please do not stay just because you might disappoint others, live is just too short for that.

Given the glut of PhD's I would suggest that you get a real job. A PhD is worth only if you are really interested in doing research otherwise you'll waste 4-5 years (then another 3-4 years doing a postdoc). Faculty positions are few and far between and then you'll have to worry about getting funds/tenure. So unless you're highly motivated by research/academia you'll mostly be miserable. In the industry a PhD doesn't make much more then a Masters and significantly less than a MBA, so there is no financial justification. Also there is a very good chance that you'll be working on things which don't even require a PhD. Some are lucky to find a good research environment but not everyone.

On the flip side if you do quit now then at some point you'll regret not getting a PhD. So think about what you want to do in life (besides having and providing for your children). A (PhD) degree is just a means to an end. People sometimes get emotional about it but they should not. Talk to your parents and I am sure they'll understand.

• 3 "A PhD is worth only if you are really interested in doing research" -- citation needed . Google, for instance, hires many PhDs and most of their time is spent in non-research work . –  Chris Gregg Commented May 6, 2013 at 12:43
• 5 @ChrisGregg Yes, but Google would have hired many of those same people with only master's or even bachelor's degrees. –  JeffE Commented May 6, 2013 at 12:55
• 7 Google gets PhDs for pretty much the same money as those with MS. I dont know of any firm where entry level PhDs are being paid 1.5x or more than those with MS or even BS. –  user7021 Commented May 6, 2013 at 14:25
• 1 @user7021 Yes, there is one. It is called Renaissance technologies. –  user774025 Commented Nov 2, 2013 at 8:21

I know how you feel because even as an undergraduate, I once packed my bags. But a friend prevailed on me and I'm still thankful for not quitting. Consider the following:

If you start a count down to finish date and get really excited about seeing the day approach, you'll know time passes really quickly.

Our emotions/feeling/circumstances are temporary/passing but our achievements (good or bad) are permanent.

Creative/innovative people (like you) get tired of routine. If you take interest in something around you that requires you to learn something challenging (say music) or something alien to you, your PhD vital signs may be positively influence.

I am not an expert at these things but I know that when I get tired of routine... I stimulate my creativity somewhere else... Not for the gain but for the challenge.

Good luck man...

First and foremost, you have to look out for you, and only you. By this, I mean your well-being, your happiness and your own future.

As many have said, rather than quit at this stage, take some time out from the study. If I may suggest some things to do in your hiatus - volunteer work, teaching in a high school, perhaps try something completely different.

You are definitely not alone - I am a PhD student and have found myself in the exact some situation, took some time - concentrated on my job (teaching), travelled, lived overseas, even did some acting. I felt rejuvenated and ready to tackle the project. In my case, I returned to study. But, all situations are very different - you have to give yourself some time and space to work out what it is you want.

I read your post and from what I can see you don't sound like you enjoy your PhD or academic life in general. I personally did not find the reason why your situation became so hard. Perhaps you don't feel ok with the fact that your girlfriend is at home and you have to be somewhere else. Perhaps you you don't find the project entertaining. I'd say it might be the research itself that does not motivate you. One thing I am certain about is that you have to feel passion for doing research. You need to be determined and driven. Otherwise, it's easy to lose motivation.

You may need to ask yourself if you really need to stay where you are! PhD is for those who plan to be professional researchers. It's only counts if you plan to stay at any university. Not only will this have to be your everyday job, you will also have to be the person who proposes many new projects and be a leader for others. If don't see yourself in this roll, then it's probably better if you consider quitting. It's nothing wrong with quitting PhD. Besides, you can still begin a PhD somewhere else. You don't need to stick to the one you don't enjoy.

I can tell you that I met many people in my office. Everyone of them had their sort of crisis and this seems quite natural stage in the whole process. The research is also not a usual job and can be frustrating. Things always go wrong. Only determination, enjoyment, and passion make people stay and continue their PhDs.

As some of the others already said, It's nothing wrong when you quit PhD. Taking a longer break, coming home for couple of months, calming down may help you realise and understand a lot of things which are difficult to spot when you under pressure.

• "PhD is for those who plan to be professional researchers" <- Not necessarily; there are other valid reasons. But you do need a good reason to work on whatever research you're working on - or you're unlikely to persevere. Don't work on Ph.D. research out of some kind of "academic inertia", because of your good grades/positive experience as an undergrad. –  einpoklum Commented Nov 17, 2020 at 13:14

It seems to me like the fundamental question here is that of whether or not your current feelings are part of a typical grad student "phase" or indicative of misaligned life goals, priorities, etc. on a much deeper level. Ultimately, a question you'll have to answer on your own and most likely by trusting your gut and intuition.

There are many, many reasons why you might be feeling the way you do now. From your description it's clear that you started the PhD process knowing you were accepting less than ideal conditions in some areas of your life with the understanding that these would be offset by other benefits. You might be more or less ambivalent about some of those benefits now that you're in the process, and the tradeoffs and benefits would certainly change if you were to switch sides and leave the program.

I would suggest assuming, for the time being, that one-year-ago you made a well educated calculation of the costs-benefits of the PhD program, in particular with a time horizon greater than 5 years.

Staying in the program then means trusting in the vision of one-year-ago you in that the long-term benefits to your life outweigh the immediate suffering (including the less than ideal use of your skills and the momentary loss of passion). On the other hand, your valuation of the tradeoffs and benefits of the PhD may have changed more than you expected, in particular with respect to your relationship or your connection to the research area.

The way to know this, in short, is to trust yourself. If your current path is just wrong for you -- if you feel you're compromising some fundamental part of yourself -- then trust that feeling. Otherwise, trust your prior vision: accept that your feelings are part of the PhD journey and trust that you'll find your passion again soon (when you stop putting pressure on yourself to find it).

One last thought that might really be the crux of the issue is that getting a PhD is a highly individualistic and very lonely experience. Richard Butterworth has a talk that really drove this home in which he says:

A PhD, by its very nature, is a very individualistic venture. ... The next big surprise for people who are starting PhDs after an undergraduate degree is just how excrutiatingly lonely a PhD is.

Your issues are real and I do not want to discount them in anyway.

In my view, you are in a privileged position and if you can make the most of it, then it would be not be a loss (as you tend to describe your experience now).

Here is a simple test: think of where you want to be in (say) five years from now? If you want to be in a place which requires a PhD, then start working on it now, other wise get out.

I know this is simplistic but it works when the issues are complicated and there are no easy solutions. At least in this way, you will make an informed decision and will not have the guilt later on!

Just suck it in and get it!

After you pass all the formal requirements, you will have a mini-tenure for 3/4/5 years (depending on the Dept you are in). I was thinking to quit first two years but now (in the mini-tenure period) I'm enjoying my life and research (from 9 to 5 only).

Try it, if you don't like it, you can always quit.

See if you can get a Master's in your second year, so that your graduate studies are not completely wasted. This is but too common in doctoral programs that they let students who are admitted to doctoral programs without being the "doctorate material" to finish the required number of courses, take the qualifier as the bottom line as far as qualification goes, and let you off with a Master's degree. They don't like that, but that's likely flight overbooking: you know that some people are not going to make it. Discuss this with your adviser.

For what I see on the earnings curves, there's a notable jump at 4 years of college/getting a Bachelor's degree, where the average earnings jump up by may be 15% from "Some college" to "BA degree" category. After that, the incomes are pretty flat, with a very modest 2 or so % return per year of education. So you ain't losing much in income, but an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead. I mean, if you drop out and found a Google or a Facebook, that's fine, but the probability of that happening is about 1e-6. (You don't know how funny that 20k figure is going to look like when your new wife asks you: "As I am expecting a baby, we need a bigger house... and also please open the college saving account for our baby", so your bold statements about income are totally out of line with real life. Or at least the life you will have in 10 years time.) The engineers that I taught seem to be starting off at $40-50Kpa, and I see no reason why a guy with a decent quant background should be making less than that.

• 11 who are admitted to doctoral programs without being the "doctorate material" — ...or decide for some other reason not to complete the PhD program. Your framing strongly suggests that everyone who drops out of their PhD program just aren't good enough; in my experience, this isn't even true as a first approximation. –  JeffE Commented May 6, 2013 at 22:39
• 11 an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead — Oh, come on. Seriously? –  JeffE Commented May 6, 2013 at 22:40
• 13 "an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead" "I have to say I don't know very many people who dropped out of a Ph.D. program." You probably do, they just choose not to be friends with you –  Amy Commented May 7, 2013 at 4:29
• 4 I also don't understand why an unfinished degree looks like a big "L". I was accepted into a program at a top tier school, which obviously means I was qualified to be there (full scholarship as well). I am doing well in my program despite my sentiments. Why would an employer frown upon me saying something like "Well, I went to do my PhD and I did very well, but I very quickly realized I didn't have passion for my research anymore and the doctorate did not feel like a good fit. Now I am searching for employment opportunities such as this one where I feel my skills and passion will be utilized" –  user7007 Commented May 7, 2013 at 6:13
• 14 @StasK I think your views on the matter are a little harsh (and in a way contribute to the fear people have of leaving a Ph.D program). A Ph.D is not the culmination of your academic career. It's a career choice , and like any choice is right for some and not for others. People are tempted to go for a Ph.D because it looks like "more school", but it takes time to realize that it's a choice of career and that it might not even be the right one. –  Suresh Commented May 7, 2013 at 16:17

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• Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]

Has anyone here been accepted into a PhD program without significant research experience?

• Thread starter Meteora
• Start date Jan 5, 2016

Full Member

• Jan 5, 2016

Psychologist

Spent like a year and a half on a research team. Only one poster, and I wasn't even first author. Still got in to a fully funded PhD program.  

GoPokes said: Spent like a year and a half on a research team. Only one poster, and I wasn't even first author. Still got in to a fully funded PhD program. Click to expand...

• Jan 6, 2016

Meteora said: Wow, so it is...possible!? May I possibly inquire on what some of your other stats were that aided in your admission into a program, or what factors you think really helped you? Another thing that I am worried about is that my approach to volunteering/supplemental experience has always been to stay at one place for a while and try to contribute as much as I can. I could never be that person who worked in 2 labs at the same time while volunteering at a hospital and also doing a crisis hotline etc. In addition to my classes, half my time is spent at a research lab on campus and the other half at a clinic. I work hard at both of those places, but I wonder if not having more experiences at different places will hurt my chances. Click to expand...

AcronymAllergy

Neuropsychologist.

I had two years' worth of research experience (simultaneously in two labs) with no posters or publications and ended up landing an offer at a funded clinical Ph.D. program. My other stats weren't particularly staggering, either--3.4-ish GPA and mid-1300's GRE (the latter of which did help a bit). Apparently my then-POI just really liked my personal statement.  

If the experience was high quality, I don't think this should be an absolute barrier to you. I assume you aren't looking at extremely research-heavy programs anyways - that is where you may run into issues in that regard. Even my clinical science program routinely accepted some outstanding candidates who didn't have any posters/pubs. I think I was 3rd of 4 authors on one regional conference presentation (and the presentation was about a student organization and wasn't even science-based) when applying and that was it. Still got into a clinical science program (admittedly now almost a decade ago). Its likely even less of an issue at less research heavy institutions (where I assume you will be looking given your goals). Either way, don't let anxiety drive major decisions about your career/life path. Same advice I'd give a patient. I think its responsible for a lot of the bad decisions we see on this board ("I'll never get in, so let me just apply to the schools that accept everyone"). Worst case scenario - you don't get in the first round and have to apply again a year later. Whoopdee doo. The world won't end and you can adjust your goals downward as needed or build experience to be more competitive the year after.  

Justanothergrad

Counseling psychologist.

It all depends on the program. More research intensive programs will be less likely to admit folks without research experience, but its not impossible and it still regularly happens. Those folks offer something else.  

OP, your anxiety is totally understandable given how competitive funded PhD programs are, but it sounds like you have a reasonable chance. More people than we realize apply to these programs with no research experience at all--they are probably not serious competition for you. When I was applying, I made sure to have at least a year in a research lab, but it was only a year, and it was a qualitative research lab at a small university. I think I got interviews in large part because of my personal statement and other written materials that accompanied each application. I worked hard to match myself to every single lab I applied to, which of course meant more work. (To be honest, my undergrad institution probably helped a lot--it's one of those that everyone has heard of and impresses people far more than it probably should!) It seems like it's all over but the anxiety--you have done the work and you're planning to apply to good programs. Unless the anxiety motivates you to put more effort into each application, it doesn't serve you now. You can't do anything about your competition or where the field is, so just try to let go of some of those things you can't control.  

DynamicDidactic

Still kickin'.

OP, the whole of your application is the most important. If you have good grades, good GREs, supportive letters, well thought out and written personal state, and research experience, but no posters then you will be ahead of 50% of applicants. As other said, the top tier research places may not work out but many fully funded PhDs will be interested. In a case like this, you really want to make sure that your letter writers are impressed by your work. However, you still have plenty of time to put together a poster. Remember, local conference by your local Psych Ass or a school conference would be fine.  

SharkBait13

Phd student - counseling psych.

• Jan 11, 2016

smalltownpsych

SharkBait13 said: years of masters-level clinical experience Click to expand...

EmotRegulation

Faculty member here. It is typical to squelch your *talking* about wanting to be a therapist for most programs. Don't worry, it's not like we don't know that the modal career outcome is clinical. It's just that we don't want to take students who will moan and groan about doing research while in school or about learning the evidence base. There ARE programs that want primarily research focused students--those are Clinical Science programs, and they don't sound like the right fit for you. But it does make sense to focus on your research experience and what you'd like to learn about (study) in-depth while in graduate school. Also, we got a LOT of applicants from people who don't have posters or publications. We also get a lot of applications from people who've never worked in a research lab. Students with posters and pubs stand out, but good applicants without conference or publication experience absolutely get offers.  

• Jan 12, 2016

Meteora said: Is this true (and something that could be generalized to most doctoral programs)? It is a real shame, because I am rather proud of the clinical exposure I've received through my volunteering. It's had a very strong effect on my understanding of certain disorders, and only reaffirmed the importance of evidence-based therapy for me (and thus the value of being able to produce and synthesize research as it will inform my clinical work). That is actually a topic I've been worried about. In applying to PhD programs, the consensus from what it seems is that I should spend the majority of my application talking about my research experience and should not at all mention that my main goal is to be a therapist. Click to expand...

smalltownpsych said: You misunderstood my point. I was commenting on how someone with lots of experience can often be difficult to train. Most balanced programs understand that they will be training clinicians more than researchers so you don't have to hide that, but research is a core competency. That is why psychologists are aware that the current best evidence on EMDR points to the eye movements not being additive to the effects of exposure therapy. Click to expand...

deleted343839

smalltownpsych said: We had one person who fit that description in our cohort and they were pretty frustrating at times because they "already knew it". They were also a big advocate of EMDR and no one could squelch that notion either. Click to expand...

Board Certified in Clinical Neuropsychology

SharkBait13 said: I know this isn't the main topic of this thread, but I'd love to hear more about this. Most practitioners, teachers, and trainees I have encountered seem to hold such differing opinions on this, and I'd love some clarity on the topic. Can you recommend a few articles about this? Click to expand...

Here is one study I found http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16382428 At this point the burden of proof is on the EMDR people to show that the eye movements improve outcomes over other forms of exposure therapy.  

Thanks guys!  

• Jan 21, 2016

I'm struggling with this as well, as I went the MA route and received a few years practicing as a therapist. I'm now ready to continue my education and am feeling daunted by my complete lack of research experience (and now the thought that my clinical experience might be seen as a negative is rather overwhelming).  

• Jan 31, 2016

ayerhead said: I'm struggling with this as well, as I went the MA route and received a few years practicing as a therapist. I'm now ready to continue my education and am feeling daunted by my complete lack of research experience (and now the thought that my clinical experience might be seen as a negative is rather overwhelming). Click to expand...

Counseling psych PhD programs are much more amenable to training someone without existing research exp  

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