is math phd worth it

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Why Grad School?

You might have heard someone say something like "The only reason to get a PhD in math is to be a professor". This is a widely spread myth that needs to be busted. For example, data from the American Mathematical Society show that around 40% of individuals who earned PhDs in the US in 2017 and 2018 went into industry. The career path of Cathy O'Neil (aka "mathbabe") (which has included academia, finance, data science, and data journalism) is a really good example of a few of the many options for someone with a PhD in math!

There are many reasons to consider graduate education in math, and it is important to know that many students enter math PhD programs undecided about what they want to do when they graduate.

Questions to ask yourself

Here are some questions to keep in mind when deciding if graduate school is right for you. Am I interested in doing math research? While you don't need to know if you want to do math research for the rest of your life, PhD programs are research training programs. If you're convinced that you don't want to ever think about doing research again, then a PhD program is probably not the best fit. However, even if you didn't love a research experience you had in undergrad, you might find that you do like the research you can do in grad school. Math grad students are very autonomous and (for the most part) get to choose what problems they think about and work on each day. So if you love math and want to learn and explore more mathematics through your own investigations, a PhD program might be right up your alley! Do I have career aspirations that require significantly more mathematical background than I currently have? There are many career paths beyond academia that require significantly more mathematical background than an undergraduate education typically offers. For example, many finance and tech companies have positions that require either a PhD in math (or related area) or extremely extensive industry experience. Do I have a good understanding of what grad school is like and think I would enjoy it? Many students who apply to grad school might not have had the opportunity to interact with grad students enough to really understand what grad school is like. Based off of stereotypes, it might be easy to think that you'd really hate or really enjoy grad school (depending on your background). One way we hope that grad student mentors can help with is to help give you a better understanding of what grad school is like so that you can be more informed when trying to decide if you'd enjoy it or not.

Some common worries and misconceptions

"After I got into grad school and decided to go to MIT, my dad didn't believe I would be paid. Nobody in my family had gone to grad school before and he thought math grad school was like med school or business school. Even when I showed him the webpage that states the stipend , he still didn't believe that people got paid to do math grad school. It wasn't until I got my first paycheck that he believed me!"

"When I was in high school, I took advanced classes in every subject except for math. To me, math wasn't fun and I thought that I just wasn't good at it, so I didn't even try to pursue it. I only realized how much I actually enjoyed math mid-way though undergrad and added my math major at the beginning of my junior year. Two years later, I started a PhD in math."

• Doing a PhD in Mathematics
• Doing a PhD

What Does a PhD in Maths Involve?

Maths is a vast subject, both in breadth and in depth. As such, there’s a significant number of different areas you can research as a math student. These areas usually fall into one of three categories: pure mathematics, applied mathematics or statistics. Some examples of topics you can research are:

• Number theory
• Numerical analysis
• String theory
• Random matrix theory
• Graph theory
• Quantum mechanics
• Statistical forecasting
• Matroid theory
• Control theory

Besides this, because maths focuses on addressing interdisciplinary real-world problems, you may work and collaborate with other STEM researchers. For example, your research topic may relate to:

• Biomechanics and transport processes
• Evidence-based medicine
• Fluid dynamics
• Financial mathematics
• Machine learning
• Theoretical and Computational Optimisation

What you do day-to-day will largely depend on your specific research topic. However, you’ll likely:

• Continually read literature – This will be to help develop your knowledge and identify current gaps in the overall body of knowledge surrounding your research topic.
• Undertake research specific to your topic – This can include defining ideas, proving theorems and identifying relationships between models.
• Collect and analyse data – This could comprise developing computational models, running simulations and interpreting forecasts etc.
• Liaise with others – This could take many forms. For example, you may work shoulder-to-shoulder with individuals from different disciplines supporting your research, e.g. Computer scientists for machine learning-based projects. Alternatively, you may need frequent input from those who supplied the data for your research, e.g. Financial institutions or biological research colleagues.
• Attend a wide range of lectures, seminars and events.

Browse PhD Opportunities in Mathematics

Application of artificial intelligence to multiphysics problems in materials design, study of the human-vehicle interactions by a high-end dynamic driving simulator, physical layer algorithm design in 6g non-terrestrial communications, machine learning for autonomous robot exploration, detecting subtle but clinically significant cognitive change in an ageing population, how long does it take to get a phd in maths.

The average programme duration for a mathematics PhD in the UK is 3 to 4 years for a full-time studying. Although not all universities offer part-time maths PhD programmes, those that do have a typical programme duration of 5 to 7 years.

Again, although the exact arrangement will depend on the university, most maths doctorates will require you to first register for an MPhil . At the end of your first year, your supervisor will assess your progress to decide whether you should be registered for a PhD.

Additional Learning Modules

Some Mathematics departments will require you to enrol on to taught modules as part of your programme. These are to help improve your knowledge and understanding of broader subjects within your field, for example, Fourier Analysis, Differential Geometry and Riemann Surfaces. Even if taught modules aren’t compulsory in several universities, your supervisor will still encourage you to attend them for your development.

Most UK universities will also have access to specialised mathematical training courses. The most common of these include Pure Mathematics courses hosted by Mathematics Access Grid Conferencing ( MAGIC ) and London Taught Course Centre ( LTCC ) and Statistics courses hosted by Academy for PhD Training in Statistics ( APTS ).

What Are the Typical Entry Requirements for A PhD in Maths?

In the UK, the typical entry requirements for a Maths PhD is an upper second-class (2:1) Master’s degree (or international equivalent) in Mathematics or Statistics [1] .

However, there is some variation on this. From writing, the lowest entry requirement is an upper second-class (2:1) Bachelor’s degree in any math-related subject. The highest entry requirement is a first-class (1st) honours Master’s degree in a Mathematics or Statistics degree only.

It’s worth noting if you’re applying to a position which comes with funding provided directly by the Department, the entry requirements will usually be on the higher side because of their competitiveness.

In terms of English Language requirements, most mathematics departments require at least an overall IELTS (International English Language Testing System) score of 6.5, with no less than 6.0 in each individual subtest.

Tips to Consider when Making Your Application

When applying to any mathematics PhD, you’ll be expected to have a good understanding of both your subject field and the specific research topic you are applying to. To help show this, it’s advisable that you demonstrate recent engagement in your research topic. This could be by describing the significance of a research paper you recently read and outlining which parts interested you the most, and why. Additionally, you can discuss a recent mathematics event you attended and suggest ways in how what you learnt might apply to your research topic.

As with most STEM PhDs, most maths PhD professors prefer you to discuss your application with them directly before putting in a formal application. The benefits of this is two folds. First, you’ll get more information on what their department has to offer. Second, the supervisor can better discover your interest in the project and gauge whether you’d be a suitable candidate. Therefore, we encourage you to contact potential supervisors for positions you’re interested in before making any formal applications.

How Much Does a Maths PhD Typically Cost?

The typical tuition fee for a PhD in Maths in the UK is £4,407 per year for UK/EU students and £20,230 per year for international students. This, alongside the range in tuition fees you can expect, is summarised below:

Note: The above tuition fees are based on 12 UK Universities [1]  for 2020/21 Mathematic PhD positions. The typical fee has been taken as the median value.

In addition to the above, it’s not unheard of for research students to be charged a bench fee. In case you’re unfamiliar with a bench fee, it’s an annual fee additional to your tuition, which covers the cost of specialist equipment or resources associated with your research. This can include the upkeep of supercomputers you may use, training in specialist analysis software, or travelling to conferences. The exact fee will depend on your specific research topic; however, it should be minimal for most mathematic projects.

What Specific Funding Opportunities Are There for A PhD in Mathematics?

Alongside the usual funding opportunities available to all PhD Research students such as doctoral loans, departmental scholarships, there are a few other sources of funding available to math PhD students. Examples of these include:

You can find more information on these funding sources here: DiscoverPhDs funding guide .

What Specific Skills Do You Gain from Doing a PhD in Mathematics?

A doctorate in Mathematics not only demonstrates your commitment to continuous learning, but it also provides you with highly marketable skills. Besides subject-specific skills, you’ll also gain many transferable skills which will prove useful in almost all industries. A sample of these skills is listed below.

• Logical ability to consider and analyse complex issues,
• Commitment and persistence towards reaching research goals,
• Outstanding verbal and written skills,
• Strong attention to detail,
• The ability to liaise with others from unique disciple backgrounds and work as part of a team
• Holistic deduction and reasoning skills,
• Forming and explaining mathematical and logical solutions to a wide range of real-world problems,
• Exceptional numeracy skills.

What Jobs Can You Get with A Maths PhD?

One of the greatest benefits maths PostDocs will have is the ability to pursue a wide range of career paths. This is because all sciences are built on core principles which, to varying extents, are supported by the core principles of mathematics. As a result, it’s not uncommon to ask students what path they intend to follow after completing their degree and receive entirely different answers. Although not extensive by any means, the most common career paths Math PostDocs take are listed below:

• Academia – Many individuals teach undergraduate students at the university they studied at or ones they gained ties to during their research. This path is usually the preferred among students who want to continue focusing on mathematical theories and concepts as part of their career.
• Postdoctoral Researcher – Others continue researching with their University or with an independent organisation. This can be a popular path because of the opportunities it provides in collaborative working, supervising others, undertaking research and attending conferences etc.
• Finance – Because of their deepened analytical skills, it’s no surprise that many PostDocs choose a career in finance. This involves working for some of the most significant players in the financial district in prime locations including London, Frankfurt and Hong Kong. Specific job titles can include Actuarial, Investment Analyst or Risk Modeller.
• Computer Programming – Some students whose research involves computational mathematics launch their career as a computer programmer. Due to their background, they’ll typically work on specialised projects which require high levels of understanding on the problem at hand. For example, they may work with physicists and biomedical engineers to develop a software package that supports their more complex research.
• Data Analyst – Those who enjoy number crunching and developing complex models often go into data analytics. This can involve various niches such as forecasting or optimisation, across various fields such as marketing and weather.

What Are Some of The Typical Employers Who Hire Maths PostDocs?

As mentioned above, there’s a high demand for skilled mathematicians and statisticians across a broad range of sectors. Some typical employers are:

• Education – All UK and international universities
• Governments – STFC and Department for Transport
• Healthcare & Pharmaceuticals – NHS, GSK, Pfizer
• Finance & Banking – e.g. Barclays Capital, PwC and J. P. Morgan
• Computing – IBM, Microsoft and Facebook
• Engineering – Boeing, Shell and Dyson

The above is only a small selection of employers. In reality, mathematic PostDocs can work in almost any industry, assuming the role is numerical-based or data-driven.

How Much Can You Earn with A PhD in Maths?

As a mathematics PhD PostDoc, your earning potential will mostly depend on your chosen career path. Due to the wide range of options, it’s impossible to provide an arbitrary value for the typical salary you can expect.

However, if you pursue one of the below paths or enter their respective industry, you can roughly expect to earn [3] :

Academic Lecturer

• Approximately £30,000 – £35,000 starting salary
• Approximately £40,000 with a few years experience
• Approximately £45,000 – £55,000 with 10 years experience
• Approximately £60,000 and over with significant experience and a leadership role. Certain academic positions can earn over £80,000 depending on the management duties.

Actuary or Finance

• Approximately £35,000 starting salary
• Approximately £45,000 – £55,000 with a few years experience
• Approximately £70,000 and over with 10 years experience
• Approximately £180,000 and above with significant experience and a leadership role.

Aerospace or Mechanical Engineering

• Approximately £28,000 starting salary
• Approximately £35,000 – £40,000 with a few years experience
• Approximately £60,000 and over with 10 years experience

Data Analyst

• Approximately £45,000 – £50,000 with a few years experience
• Approximately £90,000 and above with significant experience and a leadership role.

Again, we stress that the above are indicative values only. Actual salaries will depend on the specific organisation and position and responsibilities of the individual.

Facts and Statistics About Maths PhD Holders

The below chart provides useful insight into the destination of Math PostDocs after completing their PhD. The most popular career paths from other of highest to lowest is education, information and communication, finance and scientific research, manufacturing and government.

Note: The above chart is based on ‘UK Higher Education Leavers’ data [2] between 2012/13 and 2016/17 and contains a data size of 200 PostDocs. The data was obtained from the Higher Education Statistics Agency ( HESA ).

Which Noteworthy People Hold a PhD in Maths?

Alan turing.

Alan Turing was a British Mathematician, WW2 code-breaker and arguably the father of computer science. Alongside his lengthy list of achievements, Turning achieved a PhD in Mathematics at Princeton University, New Jersey. His thesis titled ‘Systems of Logic Based on Ordinals’ focused on the concepts of ordinal logic and relative computing; you can read it online here . To this day, Turning pioneering works continues to play a fundamental role in shaping the development of artificial intelligence (AI).

Ruth Lawrence

Ruth Lawrence is a famous British–Israeli Mathematician well known within the academic community. Lawrence earned her PhD in Mathematics from Oxford University at the young age of 17! Her work focused on algebraic topology and knot theory; you can read her interesting collection of research papers here . Among her many contributions to Maths, her most notable include the representation of the braid groups, more formally known as Lawrence–Krammer representations.

Emmy Noether

Emmy Noether was a German mathematician who received her PhD from the University of Erlangen, Germany. Her research has significantly contributed to both abstract algebra and theoretical physics. Additionally, she proved a groundbreaking theorem important to Albert Einstein’s general theory of relativity. In doing so, her theorem, Noether’s theorem , is regarded as one of the most influential developments in physics.

Other Useful Resources

Institute of Mathematics and its Applications (IMA) – IMA is the UK’s professional body for mathematicians. It contains a wide range of useful information, from the benefits of further education in Maths to details on grants and upcoming events.

Maths Careers – Math Careers is a site associated with IMA that provides a wide range of advice to mathematicians of all ages. It has a section dedicated to undergraduates and graduates and contains a handful of information about progressing into research.

Resources for Graduate Students – Produced by Dr Mak Tomford, this webpage contains an extensive collection of detailed advice for Mathematic PhD students. Although the site uses US terminology in places, don’t let that put you off as this resource will prove incredibly helpful in both applying to and undertaking your PhD.

Student Interviews – Still wondering whether a PhD is for you? If so, our collection of PhD interviews would be a great place to get an insider perspective. We’ve interviewed a wide range of PhD students across the UK to find out what doing a PhD is like, how it’s helped them and what advice they have for other prospective students who may be thinking of applying to one. You can read our insightful collection of interviews here .

[1] Universities used to determine the typical (median) and range of entry requirements and tuition fees for 2020/21 Mathematics PhD positions.

• http://www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/Graduate/Degree-programmes-2020/MPhilPhD-Mathematics
• https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/dphil-mathematics?wssl=1
• https://www.graduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/directory/mapmpdpms
• https://www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/graduate/research-degrees/mathematics-mphil-phd
• http://www.bristol.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/2020/sci/phd-mathematics/
• https://www.surrey.ac.uk/postgraduate/mathematics-phd
• https://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/school-of-mathematics/studying-here/pgr/phd-application
• https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/postgraduate-courses/mathematics-phd/
• https://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/phd/degrees/mathematics-phd
• https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/postgraduate-research/programmes/list/05325/phd-pure-mathematics/
• https://warwick.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/research/courses-2020/mathematicsphd/
• https://www.exeter.ac.uk/pg-research/degrees/mathematics/

[2] Higher Education Leavers Statistics: UK, 2016/17 – Outcomes by subject studied – https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/28-06-2018/sfr250-higher-education-leaver-statistics-subjects

[3] Typical salaries have been extracted from a combination of the below resources. It should be noted that although every effort has been made to keep the reported salaries as relevant to Math PostDocs as possible (i.e. filtering for positions which specify a PhD qualification as one of their requirements/preferences), small inaccuracies may exist due to data availability.

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Best Mathematics Programs

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A graduate degree in mathematics can help students hone

A graduate degree in mathematics can help students hone their skills in a specialty area, from algebra and number theory to discrete mathematics and combinatorics. These are the best graduate-level math programs. Each school's score reflects its average rating on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (outstanding), based on a survey of academics at peer institutions. Read the methodology »

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Best Online Doctorates in Mathematics: Top PhD Programs, Career Paths, and Salary

An online PhD in Mathematics can land you a job as a math education specialist, data scientist, or information technology professional. If you prefer theoretical, dissertation, and course-based doctoral programs, then our list of the best online PhD in Mathematics is for you.

This list of PhD in Mathematics degree programs includes information technology, education, statistics, and data science postgraduate degrees with advanced mathematics components. Keep reading to find out what schools offer these programs, the course curriculum, acceptance rates, highest-paying mathematics jobs for PhD grads, and tuition rates.

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Can you get a phd in mathematics online.

Yes, you can get a PhD in Mathematics online. However, finding online doctoral programs primarily focused on statistics, mathematics, or applied mathematics is rare. An online PhD route is apt for students looking to pursue information technology, education, or analytics-based mathematics fields.

Earning an online PhD in Information Technology allows you to advance your education in topics covering discrete mathematics, algorithms, and quantitative methods. An online PhD in Mathematics focuses on core graduate courses with a theoretical research and dissertation process. Some academic programs have a residency component required either on-site or online.

Is an Online PhD Respected?

Yes, an online PhD is respected. Online PhD programs are often considered untraditional, course-based doctoral programs, but they are currently seeing rising popularity and are on par with the curriculum of a campus-based program. Your opportunities for career advancement coincide with an on-campus PhD.

However, an online PhD in Mathematics offers limited research, topics, and dissertation scopes and can limit your career possibilities. Breaking into a mathematics academia or research profession with an online PhD can be difficult.

If you want to pursue a traditional mathematics PhD where subjects include metric space, differential geometry, algebra, and calculus, then an on-campus program is for you.

What Is the Best Online PhD Program in Mathematics?

The best online PhD program in mathematics is a PhD in Mathematics Education. This program focuses on the mathematics curriculum and educational management to help you enter the academic field. You will learn mathematical thinking , qualitative and quantitative research, geometry, and mathematical modeling.

The online math PhD programs discussed in this article cover mathematical subject areas and are more apt for those looking to enter the business, data, or tech fields. You can apply to Stanford University, Columbia University, or Harvard University to find the best in-person mathematics PhDs.

Why the University of Wyoming Has the Best Online PhD Program in Mathematics

University of Wyoming has the best mathematics PhD program because it offers an affordable and reputable online mathematics education doctorate program. This program provides in-depth coverage of mathematics and qualifies you for research or post-secondary positions in the field.

Best Online Master’s Degrees

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Online PhD in Mathematics Admission Requirements

The admission requirements of an online PhD in Mathematics include educational qualifications, GPA, and professional experience components. Universities require doctoral students to earn a 3.0 or higher GPA and have a master’s or bachelor’s degree from an accredited institution.

PhD programs from the accredited institutions in this article also require two to three letters of recommendation, a resume, and graduate courses covering math education.

Depending on the school, you might also need to submit GRE and GMAT scores and proof of three to five years of relevant professional experience. Some schools also require candidates to complete a doctoral interview that discusses their interests in the program.

• 3.0 or higher GPA and a relevant undergraduate degree or master’s degree
• Official transcripts from all attended universities
• GRE and GMAT scores
• Resume, personal statement, and letters of recommendation
• Financial assistance application
• Doctoral interview with program faculty
• Prerequisites for graduate courses providing a math education
• Proof of three to five years of professional experience in math, statistics, or a relevant field

Best Online PhDs in Mathematics: Top Degree Program Details

Best online phds in mathematics: top university programs to get a phd in mathematics online.

The top university programs to get a PhD in Mathematics are offered at prestigious institutions like Texas A&M, Northcentral University, and the University of Wyoming. Below is a list of the best online PhDs in Mathematics, along with their program descriptions, tuition costs, and admission requirements.

This list of online PhDs in Mathematics covers a wide range of subject areas, including information technology, data science, education, and business analytics, all of which encompass mathematics topics to help you further your career in math and tech-based professions.

Capella University is a private online university founded in 1993. Its online academic degrees are catered toward adult learners and busy professionals looking to get a higher education. It offers programs covering business, information technology, psychology, education, nursing, and health science fields. 

PhD in Information Technology

If you’re interested in furthering your education in information technology with an integrated capstone project and in-field curriculum, then this degree is for you. The program includes 70 online courses covering tech research and quantitative analysis topics and allows the transfer of 12 credits. 

This program has courses on assurance controls, tech consulting, quantitative design, and complex adaptive systems. This doctoral degree program can help you enter mathematical and tech research fields. You must also complete two virtual residencies and one dissertation focusing on risk management, data science processes , or advanced computing systems. 

PhD in Information Technology Overview

• Accreditation: Higher Learning Commission
• Program Length: Maximum 4 years 9 months
• Acceptance Rate: N/A
• Tuition and Fees: $750/credit per quarter; $175 resource kit fee; $3,000/capstone per quarter

PhD in Information Technology Admission Requirements

• $50 application fee
• Transcripts from all attended universities
• Master’s degree from an accredited university
• Minimum 3.0 GPA

Capitol Technology University was established in 1927 and is a private accredited institution offering both on-campus and online degrees. It is regionally recognized as a top STEM field university and offers online bachelor's, master's, and doctoral programs. Prospective students can apply for online programs in engineering management, cyber security, computer science, product management, or artificial intelligence.

PhD in Business Analytics and Data Science

This business analytics and data science doctorate degree is apt for statisticians wanting to venture into leadership positions in data or business. Although this is an online-based program, it still requires campus visits for its residency course, oral defense, and dissertation presentation. 

The curriculum includes applied statistics, quantitative methods, big data warehousing, applied research, and economic management. You can land lucrative statistician jobs at top companies or pursue a career in data research. 

PhD in Business Analytics and Data Science Overview

• Accreditation: Middle States Commission on Higher Education
• Program Length: 3 years
• Tuition and Fees: $933 plus fees/credit for 2022 to 2023 academic year

PhD in Business Analytics and Data Science Admission Requirements

• Essay, relevant experience, and skills covering business analytics and data science 
• Two letters of recommendation
• Resume showcasing a minimum of five years of industry-relevant work experience
• Undergraduate or master’s degree
• Official college transcripts

City University of Seattle specializes in providing flexible degree programs apt for adult education. It was founded in 1973 and offers more than 65 degree and certification programs. Prospective students can enroll in its advanced online degrees covering business, project management, computer systems, or education administration. 

Several industry professionals in information technology or computer science have extensive math education. This PhD is an excellent choice for graduate students wanting to build a career in instructional technology, computer science research, or another STEM field. 

It offers cyber security, data science, artificial intelligence, or cloud computing concentrations. The data science specialization is best suited for students wanting to get theoretical and hands-on experience across math subjects. 

Some of its core courses in advanced math education cover discrete math, evidence-based practices, quantitative research, computing algorithms, and differential equation topics. The degree also requires research, a dissertation, and a residency in computer science and research. 

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• Accreditation : Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities
• Program Length: 4 to 5 years
• Tuition and Fees: $765/credit
• Background in programming, database management, operating systems, or networking
• Resume showcasing more than two years of tech-based experience
• 400 to 600-word goal statement
• Three references and their contact information
• Admissions statement questions form
• Interview with the program faculty

Colorado Technical University offers online and on-campus programs in business, mechanical engineering, criminal justice, computer science, educational administration, and nursing education. It was founded in 1965 and currently has a robust online advanced degree program. It offers more than 80 programs to its online students. 

PhD in Computer Science with a Concentration in Big Data Analytics

According to PayScale reports, the average salary of a lead data scientist is $135,887 per year. This doctoral degree provides you with the leadership skills and hands-on experience needed to land lead data scientists’ or other senior tech positions. The degree requires you to fulfill its curriculum, residency, dissertation process, and required credit hours. 

Some of its core courses include advanced quantitative analysis, research methods, big data analysis, information systems, and business intelligence. 

PhD in Computer Science with a Concentration in Big Data Analytics Overview

• Tuition and Fees: $598/credit

PhD in Computer Science with a Concentration in Big Data Analytics Admission Requirements

• Contact an admissions officer
• Online application
• Background in research, theoretical, or other relevant fields
• Contact program faculty to find other requirements
• Doctoral interview

Grand Canyon University is an accredited school founded in 1949. It is home to over 23,500 on-campus students and provides education to more than 90,000 working adult students through its online schools as of 2021. 

Some of its popular online programs include graphic design, communication, business administration, information systems, education administration, health sciences, and data science topics. Its online options offer both undergraduate and postgraduate degrees. 

DBA in Data Analytics 

If your career goals involve business or data analytics, then this DBA will help you get your dream job in data analytics . It focuses on quantitative research and math education and includes data complexity, business administration, financial management, and research design courses. 

Its residency and dissertation process requires you to pursue research in statistical mechanics, quantitative analytics, and data science topics. You can also opt to attend its on-campus evening classes instead of its online option. 

DBA in Data Analytics Overview

• Accreditation: Higher Learning Commission 
• Program Length: 150 weeks 
• Acceptance Rate: 73%
• Tuition and Fees: $715/credit

DBA in Data Analytics Admission Requirements

• 3.4 or above GPA is preferred, with 3.0 as the minimum GPA
• MBA or business-related graduate degree
• Official transcripts of all universities attended

Iowa State University is recognized as one of the flagship public schools with a total undergraduate enrollment of 26,846 students for its fall 2020 cohort. According to US News & World Report, Iowa State University ranks 122 among the best national universities and 45 in the best undergraduate engineering programs.

PhD in Information Systems and Business Analytics 

This tech and business doctoral degree is apt for students looking for career advancement across organizational leadership, computer science academia, or business intelligence management fields. The degree map incorporates dissertation research, oral defense, and advanced degrees. 

You will learn financial management , information technology research, business analytics, and organizational leadership. Some of its math-based courses include applied statistics, logistics, differential equations, and economics. 

PhD in Information Systems and Business Analytics Overview

• Program Length: 5 years
• Tuition and Fees: $6,491/semester (in state); $14,490/semester (out of state) for fall 2021 and spring 2022

PhD in Information Systems and Business Analytics Admission Requirements

• Master’s degree preferred but not required
• Statement of purpose, CV, and college transcripts
• GMAT scores preferred, 600 minimum or equivalent GRE Scores
• Three letters of recommendation
• A writing sample relevant to the doctorate subject

Northcentral University is a private institution founded in 1996 and offers undergraduate, master's, and doctoral-level online programs. Its doctoral programs are fully online and do not include any physical residency requirements. You can choose to enroll in business administration, health sciences, education law, elementary education, technology, or public administration online programs.  

PhD in Data Science

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, the job outlook for data scientists is 22 percent between 2020 to 2030 . The high job outlook makes a data science doctoral degree investment highly profitable. It’s a research-based program that includes 20 courses in subjects like data warehousing, information systems, and data science theories. 

PhD in Data Science Overview

• Program Length: 3 years 4 months
• Tuition and Fees: $68,560/program

PhD in Data Science Admission Requirements

• Academic evaluation with an enrollment advisor

Texas A&M University is a public school that was established in 1876. It has a large student population with a fall 2021 enrollment of 73,284 students. Its distance learning school offers 104 undergraduate degrees, certificates, and graduate programs. Distance learners can enroll in public administration, education law, public health, criminal justice, or engineering programs.

PhD in Curriculum and Instruction, Emphasis in Mathematics Education 

If you want to become a professor or enter the elementary education sector, then this online doctoral degree in mathematics is for you. It helps you become an education specialist in mathematics. The degree plan requires you to complete a dissertation, curriculum development, research, and core credits. 

Its courses include statistical analysis, qualitative and quantitative research, theories of education, categorical data analysis, and linear models. Some other career prospects include math education administration, data science, or statistical analytics fields. 

PhD in Curriculum and Instruction, Emphasis in Mathematics Education Overview

• Accreditation: Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, Commission on Colleges
• Program Length: 4 years 
• Tuition and Fees: $4,254/semester (in state); $9,019/semester (out of state) fall 2022 or spring 2023 for 9 credit hours per semester

PhD in Curriculum and Instruction, Emphasis in Mathematics Education Admission Requirements

• $89 application fee for online application
• Departmental essays 
• Three letters of reference

University of Central Florida is a public research institution founded in 1963. The school is best known for its engineering, computer science, public administration, and programs in education. According to US News & World Report, the University of Central Florida is among the top public schools and ranks 15 among the most innovative schools .

PhD in Education

This online PhD in Education offers course tracks across educational psychology, English, instructional design, empirical research, social science, and K-8 mathematics. If your career goals involve being in fields like education policy, education administration, or math education, then this degree is for you. 

It requires you to complete research electives, a dissertation, and 18 credit hours of core courses. It helps you master evidence-based decisions, teacher education administrative tasks, and curriculum development skills. 

PhD in Education Overview

• Tuition and Fees: $327/credit (in state); $1,151/credit (out of state)

PhD in Education Admission Requirements

• Speak with a graduate program success coach
• GMAT or GRE scores
• Transcripts from all universities attended
• Immunization forms
• Residency class form
• Contact program faculty for other requirements

University of Wyoming is among the reputable national universities and offers both on-campus and online bachelor's, master's, and doctoral programs. According to US News & World Report, the University of Wyoming ranks 196 among the best national universities and number 99 in the top public schools. 

Its online students can choose from its accounting, education policy, public administration, education law, finance, or nurse practitioner certificate or degree programs.

PhD in Mathematics Education

This math education doctoral degree focuses on qualitative research, mathematical modeling, quantitative reasoning, differential equations, and associated geometry topics. It also requires you to complete dissertation research and a preliminary exam. 

You can use this degree to venture into mathematics professor, math doctorate degree advisor, or elementary education specialist professions. 

PhD in Mathematics Education Overview

• Tuition and Fees: $7,182/year (in state); $18,324/year (out of state) for 18 credits per academic year

PhD in Mathematics Education Admission Requirements

• GRE Scores: 144 quantitative, 151 verbal, 4.0 analytical writing
• Master’s degree
• Three years of P-12 teaching or other relevant professional experience
• Meet residency and academic status requirements
• Letter of intent, three letters of recommendation, an academic writing sample, and a resume

Online Mathematics PhD Graduation Rates: How Hard Is It to Complete an Online PhD Program in Mathematics?

It is extremely hard to complete an online PhD program in mathematics. This is due to the advanced core courses, extensive research, and dissertation process requirements. Several mathematics online PhDs tend to branch into difficult subjects covering information technology, data science, or business analytics .

This requires doctoral candidates to have an extensive background in technical and advanced mathematics subjects. The timeline and approval aspects of a PhD are also demanding, leading to high attrition rates.

How Long Does It Take to Get a PhD in Mathematics Online?

It takes about four years to get a PhD in Mathematics online. However, the exact time duration can range anywhere from three to six years, depending on the candidate and program requirements. Doctoral students with transfer credit hours can complete the degree in a shorter time frame.

Students who fail to meet their dissertation process requirements or get early approval for their research topics will finish their degrees in a longer time frame. Online PhDs are catered toward full-time professionals or adult learners by offering a flexible schedule. Those who take fewer credit hours and opt for a flexible schedule will increase their degree timeline.

How Hard Is an Online Doctorate in Mathematics?

An online Doctorate in Mathematics is extremely hard. It incorporates an array of advanced subject areas and dissertation topic possibilities. The best online mathematics PhDs are offered in information technology, data science, or business analytics fields. All of these subject areas require technical knowledge and extensive research commitment and self-discipline.

Best PhD Programs

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What Courses Are in an Online Mathematics PhD Program?

The courses in an online mathematics PhD program include mathematical modeling, statistics, quantitative reasoning, and discrete mathematics. Depending on your choice of a doctoral program, your core courses might also include curriculum development, data analytics, programming languages , or financial analysis.

Regardless of the primary PhD concentration, the mathematics components of the degree will help you master advanced applied math topics.

Main Areas of Study in a Mathematics PhD Program

• Data science
• Differential equations
• Mathematics curriculum development
• Business analytics
• Quantitative and qualitative research
• Discrete mathematics

How Much Does Getting an Online Mathematics PhD Cost?

It costs $19,314 per year to get a PhD in Mathematics, according to the National Center of Education Statistics (NCES). Your online PhD tuition rates will typically range in this area but will vary from one university program to another.

NCES further reports the graduate tuition of private institutions from 2018 to 2019 was $25,929 and for public institutions was $12,171. This disparity in tuition costs is also present in online PhDs in Mathematics.

How to Pay for an Online PhD Program in Mathematics

You can pay for an online PhD program in mathematics by applying for doctoral funding programs, scholarship opportunities, or education loan financing. You can also apply for an employee sponsorship program at your workplace.

The online aspect of the PhD limits student exposure to research opportunities and graduate assistantships. You can still get in touch with a university representative to find potential internal funding opportunities, though. Doctoral students can also apply for external funding available for math programs.

How to Get an Online PhD for Free

You cannot get an online PhD for free. However, PhDs and other advanced degrees may be eligible for fully-funded scholarships, depending on the student applying for them. You can apply for university or external scholarships to fully fund your PhD, but the chances of getting a full-tuition grant are low for online programs.

What Is the Most Affordable Online PhD in Mathematics Degree Program?

The most affordable online PhD in Mathematics degree program is offered by the University of Central Florida for $18,675. The school’s PhD in Education charges $327.32 per credit hour and consists of 51 to 57 credits for the program.

Most Affordable Online PhD Programs in Mathematics: In Brief

Why you should get an online phd in mathematics.

You should get an online PhD in Mathematics because it will help you land lucrative positions in post-secondary education, management, or research. A PhD is highly respected and showcases your expertise in advanced applied mathematics topics.

Top Reasons for Getting a PhD in Mathematics

• Multifaceted career outcome opportunities. An online PhD in Mathematics covers technical and non-technical subjects, including computer science, data analytics, education management, and applied mathematics. This opens up career possibilities across several in-demand industries.
• Specialized skills. Mathematics PhDs help you acquire specialized skills in quantitative research, statistical analytics, and discrete mathematics. These skills are highly demanded in the data, research, artificial intelligence, and business industries.
• Higher salaries. These doctoral programs also qualify you for senior roles. Senior-level roles offer higher salaries and an increased earning potential.
• High job security. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics notes that the job outlook for computer and information research scientists is 22 percent between 2020 to 2030. Several online mathematics PhDs will qualify you for jobs under these tech occupations and provide you with a high job security rate.

Best Master’s Degree Programs

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What Is the Difference Between an On-Campus Mathematics PhD and an Online PhD in Mathematics?

The difference between an on-campus mathematics PhD and an online PhD in Mathematics the core course topics and research potential. The career outcomes of these types of degrees also vary depending on your choice of program. Below are the key differences between an on-campus vs an online mathematics PhD program.

Online PhD vs On-Campus PhD: Key Differences

• Tuition affordability. An online PhD in Mathematics is typically less expensive compared to an on-campus PhD. However, although an on-campus degree is more costly, there are more funding opportunities.
• More math concentrations. There aren’t many mathematics concentrations in an online program compared to in-person degrees. Most online programs offer information technology, data science, or education focused on advanced math subjects.
• Research scopes. The research topic scopes in an on-campus program are more practical, unlike dissertation-based online PhDs.
• Socialization opportunities. An on-campus PhD offers ample socialization opportunities and easy access to the program faculty and financial aid offices. This is more difficult for online doctoral students.

How to Get a PhD in Mathematics Online: A Step-by-Step Guide

To get a PhD in Mathematics online, you need to fulfill the school’s admissions prerequisites and program requirements. Below are the five main steps required to complete an online PhD in Mathematics.

You must pay the application fee, upload official transcripts, and fill out the application questionnaire. You will also submit all proof of professional experience, letters of recommendation, resumes, and personal statements. 

The admissions requirements section is where you complete a doctoral interview with the program faculty. The requirements for this interview will vary from school to school. You will discuss degree outcomes, passions, and financial payment plans during the interview.

The third step is to contact your program advisor and discuss the degree timeline and requirements. You will discuss potential research and dissertation topics.

Next, you must complete all core courses. The courses will vary depending on your major, but it is crucial to complete them to graduate both successfully and on time.

The last step is to complete your research, residency, and dissertation process. This step requires prior approval from the program’s doctoral faculty. 

Online PhD in Mathematics Salary and Job Outlook

The salary and job outlook for online mathematics PhDs will vary by industry, profession, and degree concentration. The salary can range from $79,640 to $110,000 per year, and the job growth rate can go as high as 33 percent.

What Can You Do With an Online Doctorate in Mathematics?

With an online Doctorate in Mathematics, you can become a research analyst , mathematics professor, statistician, or data scientist. You can also enter higher education management, data analytics, quantitative research, or finance analytics professions. The career possibilities with an online Doctorate in Mathematics are countless and cover many industries.

Best Jobs with a PhD in Mathematics

• Mathematics Professor
• Statistician
• Operations Research Analyst
• Mathematician
• Data Scientist

Potential Careers With a Mathematics Degree

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What Is the Average Salary for an Online PhD Holder in Mathematics?

The average salary for PhD in Mathematics holders is $110,000 per yea r, according to PayScale. However, your salary range will vary depending on your choice of profession. Education sector professions often offer lower average salaries compared to information technology or data science sectors.

Highest-Paying Mathematics Jobs for PhD Grads

Best mathematics jobs for online phd holders.

The best mathematics jobs for online PhD holders opens up opportunities across the research, data, analytics, or information technology fields. Below are the highest-paying jobs you can apply for with your online PhD in Mathematics.

A data scientist is responsible for analyzing, visualizing, and sorting raw data into useful information. They can work in a wide range of industries and work to extract useful data for optimal business operations or scientific results. 

• Salary with a Mathematics PhD: $100,910
• Job Outlook: 22% job growth from 2020 to 2030
• Number of Jobs: 33,000
• Highest-Paying States: Oregon, Arizona, Texas

A statistician is a mathematics and data science professional who uses quantitative and qualitative research in surveys to find valuable information. They are responsible for designing, conducting, and analyzing each quantitative survey. 

• Salary with a Mathematics PhD: $96,280
• Job Outlook: 33% job growth from 2020 to 2030
• Number of Jobs: 44,800
• Highest-Paying States: New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts 

A mathematician conducts research on theoretical mathematical principles to advance the mathematics, physics, engineering, data science, or economics fields. They work with mathematical modeling, statistical analysis, and quantitative reasoning to study mathematics. 

• Highest-Paying States: District of Columbia, New York, New Jersey

An operations research analyst is responsible for evaluating an organization’s operations and production plan and must suggest further productivity solutions. They use data analytics, mathematics, quantitative and qualitative research, and statistics for their jobs. 

• Salary with a Mathematics PhD: $82,360
• Job Outlook: 25% job growth from 2020 to 2030
• Number of Jobs: 104,100
• Highest-Paying States: Virginia, Alabama, Maryland

A mathematics professor works at post-secondary educational institutions and develops the course curriculum, assignments, and exams to test students in their knowledge and comprehension. They teach introductory and advanced math classes to college students and can also lead research departments. 

• Salary with a Mathematics PhD: $79,640
• Job Outlook: 12% job growth from 2020 to 2030
• Number of Jobs: 1,276,900
• Highest-Paying States: California, Rhode Island, Oregon

Is It Worth It to Do a PhD in Mathematics Online?

Yes, it is worth it to do a PhD in Mathematics online. Mathematics online PhDs cover subject areas that open up career opportunities in lucrative sectors of academics, business, data science, and tech.

PhD programs are worth it for doctorate students looking to earn a higher salary and achieve increased job security. Mathematics doctoral programs qualify you for many high-paying jobs, including university professor, research analyst, and mathematician.

Additional Reading About Mathematics

[query_class_embed] https://careerkarma.com/blog/best-mathematics-bachelors-degrees/ https://careerkarma.com/blog/best-online-mathematics-bachelors-degrees/ https://careerkarma.com/blog/mathematics-associate-degrees/

Online PhD in Mathematics FAQ

Online mathematics PhDs cover courses in applied mathematics, discrete mathematics, statistics, quantitative research, and operations analytics topics. The core subject areas will vary depending on the focus subject of the online degree.

No, it is not easy to get an online mathematics PhD. A doctoral degree comprises research, dissertation, and advanced courses covering highly technical topics.

It will take around three to five years to complete an online mathematics PhD. Your degree timeline depends on your course schedule, dissertation process, and transfer credits.

A data science concentration is best for an online mathematics PhD. Data science is a rapidly growing field that encompasses tons of in-demand professions with high salaries. Moreover, with a data science focus, you will also get to work on a wide range of real-world problems instead of just theoretical scenarios.

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Math Misery?

"do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics. i assure you, mine are still greater." -albert einstein, should i get a phd … in math.

If you’re asking this question, then the answer is “Yes, go and work towards a PhD.”

Now for some details.

Every so often (about once a semester), I have a student, a friend, an acquaintance, a client, etc. ask me if they should “get a PhD in Mathematics”. But that’s actually not where the question ends nor is that really the question. Usually the back story is as follows:

• The person is thinking about graduate school in a technical discipline because they happen to be reasonably good with mathematics (and for the sciences, being reasonably good, at least mechanically, at mathematics is a prerequisite).
• They have a burning desire for something beyond what their undergraduate curriculum offers.
• They’ve been in the workforce for some time and now want to go back to graduate school — these folks often have a science, engineering, or math undergraduate degree and their work environment has been technical.

From here the following types of statements are said when the individual goes to seek out the opinions of friends and colleagues for getting a PhD in Mathematics:

• Don’t get a PhD, you’ll have no job prospects.
• All you can do with a PhD in Math is teach and you won’t make a lot of money.
• You’ll be overqualified for industry positions.
• Don’t get a PhD, you’ll be an expert in something that only 10 people know about.
• You have to publish papers all the time to keep your professor position.

Some half-truths, some full-blown lies.

Zeroth, who says that there are no job prospects? What is their background? Where / how are they making this claim? Every time I ask these sets of questions, the demographics of the folks who discourage others from further academic pursuit of mathematics are folks who themselves have either failed out of a PhD program or had made their decision to stop further pursuit because of someone else who told them not to. It would be like me saying to someone, don’t pursue a career in Graphic Design, you’re just going to spend the whole time touching up other people’s crappy design work. I’m not a Graphic Designer! I don’t work in that capacity! And even if I did work in that capacity, then seek out a few other opinions! This guy is an awesome graphic designer (he’s my brother).

First, check out 101 Careers in Mathematics . I haven’t read it, but the title alone should be convincing.

Next, at a personal level. I work and have worked as a mathematician in industry. I also teach part-time. I regularly get messages or phone calls from recruiters about full-time opportunities for someone with a strong mathematical and technical background. Depending on the recruiter, it can be hit or miss. Some recruiters don’t really understand the expertise and just see math, math, math, everywhere on my resumé. The recruiters that don’t understand my background will send me full-time positions for Bachelor’s degree candidates. Technical recruiters tend to have a better time understanding the various backgrounds. I am overqualified for some positions, mis-qualified for others, underqualified still for others, or a perfect match. This qualification problem is going to happen no matter what degree one holds. The best thing I can do for myself is to see which positions are within my technical expertise, but for which I am underqualified and start learning those topics. I may not want to apply for that job, but it’s an indication of something I don’t know.

I ran a Math department for a few years in the corporate world with three US offices directly reporting to me and a total of eight global offices over which I had policy oversight. I didn’t do the math in the Math department — I hired people with math and computer science backgrounds to take care of the day-to-day mechanical work. What I had to do was set up sensible and rigorous math policy, field technical questions from clients, create efficient processes, explain the mathematical underpinnings of certain methods to non-math savvy regulators, etc. — in effect, I was a business manager with a very technical background. That is exactly what was needed for that position. The company needed someone who was external facing who could speak about mathematical topics with proven authority in the field without speaking in subscripts.

I now work in a consulting role. I work with organizations to help streamline business processes so that they are cost-efficient without sacrificing quality. How do I do that? I write programs. I analyze the entire product development life cycle and see where bottlenecks are. I track relevant and necessary statistics to measure how effective these processes are. I also run pre-analysis to give a sense of what the expected gains are of a new process or method. And it doesn’t stop there. I also look at existing technical code and see where things can be more efficient.

Some of my clients are also individuals who are working professionals. Some are going through a career change, others just feel that they are falling behind the times and want to get “caught up”. Career changes often requires going back to school, taking some type of graduate school entrance exam, taking a statistics course, etc. Those who feel they are falling behind really just want to learn how to program. I’ve worked with company vice presidents, small business owners, working professionals returning to school for an MBA (for example), medical doctors, finance professionals, and even aspiring math teachers. I have yet to work with a school — I would love to do that, but I’ve found that there’s an immense amount of red tape. Anyone know how I can go about working with a school — math training, professional development, software development, leadership training, classroom management, “cool math stuff seminars”, etc.?

Finally, it is true that there are many teaching positions available with a PhD in Mathematics. It is also true that it is not all fun and glamour, living the life of luxury of an esteemed professor’s life. But tell me, how many other career choices are that glamorous? And if you wanted glamour, go do something else! Either that or solve a popular and open problem in mathematics. Then you’ll have fame! People confuse the fact that there are many teaching positions with there are only teaching positions.

If you are thinking about working towards a PhD in Mathematics and do not want to teach, then absolutely, you must learn to program. Without a reasonably strong programming background, there are fewer industry positions available (“fewer” does not equal “none”). If you do want to teach mathematics, I’d still encourage you to learn to program. It will help with teaching. Students will want to see the theory in action and not just in an academic setting. This is how I teach many of the “applied” courses or units like Graph Theory, Probability, Statistics, Personal Finance, etc.

The point here is that the degree is the degree and in some sense it’s irrelevant, but, if you have the degree and can actually put it to use, there are opportunities beyond teaching. A PhD in Mathematics is not somehow making a person unemployable. It just means that the type of employment one will find is different.

“Getting” a PhD

One does not “get” a PhD by hanging around in the system for a bunch of years. Unlike Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees where the majority of the requirement is to complete coursework in an academically satisfactory way, a PhD is not quite the same. There are few courses that one actually takes as “requirement”. The majority of the time is spent doing research, writing papers, giving talks, and even perhaps, networking within the math community.

Several of the people who have been interested in a PhD were under the impression that the process works as follows: 4 years for a Bachelor’s, 2 years for a Master’s, and then 4 years for a PhD. That may be a reasonable average for the length of time that it takes, but the content is different. The Bachelor’s programs are coursework heavy, with perhaps a senior project that is professor-led. The Master’s degree also tends to be coursework heavy. But there are two types of Master’s degrees. There is the Master’s degree that is not research-oriented, and then there’s a Master’s degree that is research-oriented. The research-oriented degrees are typically set ups for entrance into the PhD program. The non-research-oriented degree is coursework heavy and does not often require the same focus on theory as the research-oriented Master’s degree does. The two degrees have a lot of overlap, but there are nuanced differences in coursework.

Getting into a PhD program often requires the completion of the Master’s level coursework. Some programs award a Master’s degree and then require that the student “reapply” for the PhD program by successfully passing a grueling set of exams known as “Qualifying Exams” (“quals”). Once a student has passed the quals, they are admitted into the PhD program and are now considered to be a PhD Candidate. Other programs have one of two tracks — a Master’s track or a PhD track. If one enters the PhD track, it’s do or die and there’s no Master’s degree awarded regardless of the outcome. If one enters the Master’s track, then they have to apply to a different university for their PhD.

Your Advisor And Your Research

As I said earlier, the PhD is not a degree that one just “gets”. There is a “Master / Apprentice” type relationship between the PhD Candidate and his/her Advisor. There are many, many horror stories of tyrannical advisors who work their apprentices into the ground. I’ve been witness to a few of these incidents. It’s a bit scary and terrifying to have one maniacal individual control several years of a person’s life. For this reason, if you are pursuing a PhD in Mathematics (or any field), choose your advisor very carefully. You will be working with him/her closely for many an hour.

I had the great fortune of having probably the best advisor a student could have. Not only was he a capable and energetic researcher, he was patient, thoughtful, kind, and knew how to work with a variety of personalities and work habits. He left me alone to fiddle. I did a lot of work under him. He pushed me to present and publish. But in all of this, he was never once a tyrant. This is the type of person you want as your advisor. So, when you are working on your Master’s degree towards your PhD, pay close attention to graduate and research faculty. Interact with them. See how they treat their graduate students.

Your advisor, if you are able to cultivate a healthy relationship with him/her, will be your mentor for your life. It really is a Master / Apprentice relationship. You just have to decide if your Master is a Sith Lord or a Jedi Master and then you have to decide what you will become.

Your research is your baby. Nurture it, grow it, cultivate it, and stay with it. That’s a mistake I’ve made. I haven’t kept up with research mostly because I am not working in academia full-time. Regardless, I still make it a point to read the latest in the literature and keep fresh in my mind the things I worked on. One day I will get back into it.

Your research trajectory isn’t necessarily going to go the way you planned. You may start out studying Partial Differential Equations, but before you know it, as you wind through the maze that is Mathematics research, you may find yourself deeply immersed in Stochastic Calculus. Don’t pigeonhole yourself from the outset. Let research take you where it takes you and be excited about everything.

Research is not easy business. There are going to be many, many failures. Some even soul-crushing. My first soul-crushing failure was when one of my research papers was already published in full-generality! I had done an extensive literature review and had found nothing on the topic. Every few months I would do searches and nothing. Then once I had all my results ready and the paper written, I did one last literature review and wouldn’t you know, someone had already published it!

Research is open-ended. There is no textbook solution to the problem you are working on. There is no readily applicable theory. There are no existing methods. This is what you are doing. You are crafting the theory. You are devising the method. You are working on an unsolved problem, however esoteric as it may seem.

Failures define us just as much as our successes do. The sooner we can learn from our mistakes, overcome the setbacks, and get back on our feet, the closer we are to success. Working towards a PhD is not for the weak-willed and it isn’t a degree one just gets.

As I said at the beginning, if you are contemplating working towards a PhD, then do it. Do your homework with respect to who your advisor is, what research specialty you may want to start with, what the university program looks like, what the Math department looks like, etc. Ignore all the silly reasons that people give you about job prospects and the like. Anyone who tells you “don’t learn anymore”, isn’t your friend. Jettison them from your life, immediately.

10 thoughts on “ Should I Get A PhD … In Math? ”

Thank you for your post! I also really enjoy mathematics. I graduated with a Bachelor in Health Science with a minor in business with College Algebra and Calculus 1 courses completed. So fun. I am currently signed up to complete my Masters in Accounting degree, however, I also want to pursue mathematics. I considered completed my Masters in Accounting with a minor in mathematics, and then going on to a PhD in Mathematics. The reason I am considering a Masters in Accounting is due to the “job security,” as well as I kind of enjoy accounting, and the potential to work from home. I know I really enjoy mathematics, and it is one of the subjects that I caught on to the easiest throughout school. I didn’t have to study near as long with math, as I did with other subjects. (1) Moreover, would me pursing a Masters in Accounting with a minor in mathematics, and then going on to pursue a PhD in Mathematics a smart choice? Or should I plan to pursue a Masters in Mathematics, and then go on to the PhD in Mathematics? As a note, the path I would like to pursue with mathematics is to teach mathematics one day. Learning to program sounds cool too. Also, knowing what mathematics scholarships are available out there would be very helpful. (2) Do you know of any math scholarships that I can apply for? Thanks! Melissa Coppola

Thank you for the post…i am having few questions …. what are the benefits that a PhD in mathematics person get…..why should one do PhD in mathematics ..i mean a person is interested but he/she is confused in why one should do PhD ..what are the benifits in future after completing PhD . please reply for the same

Thank you for the post. I have dreamed of learning advanced math since I was in primary school, I have loved math so much, that I had spent my secondary school summers on learning math, solving math questions and equations, I had such a desire for learning math, that it was all I was thinking of and practicing, and I was very good at it. Now, when I graduated from secondary school, I was one of the top students in my country, and though I wanted to pursue a degree in a math related subjects, I ended up pursued to enter medical school, which ended miserably with a low GPA in Health Science. ;( Now I find myself dreaming about math again, wishing if things where different Anyways, do I have a chance? I did not study math at college, I am eager to study math again, I would love to spend up to 12 hours a day every single day studying math, I would feel energetic and happy. Do you have any advice for me, thanks.

Thanks for writing! I don’t know your exact situation, but if you have the time and resources, then absolutely pursue mathematics as you’ve wanted to all along! Generally, and broadly speaking, if you’ve been out of touch with mathematics (formally) for a while, don’t be surprised if it takes a little bit of time getting yourself back up to speed. Be patient, continue to work at it, and always try to ask ‘why’ when studying! Let me know how you are proceeding!

Thank you so much! Weeps.

You’re quite welcome!

Thank you for the post. I’m currently preparing to apply to a graduate program this January after 5+ years of community college teaching. This is great advice and quite encouraging.

By the way, what you say about your advisor is absolutely true, he taught my undergrad multivariable calculus course at Ball State when he was a postdoc. He was fantastic.

I’m so happy to know that this has helped in some way! And yes, Giray is great.

Thank you for this. I really want to study mathematics.. but right now I feel like a lot of door are closed since I pursued a different path. I still have a yearning. I have to see how that path will unfold. Your piece has helped a lot! Thanks

Thank you so much for your words! I’m glad this has helped. Feel free to get in touch if you need a sounding board!

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A Day in the Life Series - PhD Student (Applied Mathematics)

• Career guides

I’m responsible for…

As a PhD student, we have to research a particular area of mathematics with the intention of performing some novel research. As part of my PhD, it is required that I produce research papers, as well as yearly reports to monitor my progression. It is also expected that I present my work at seminars or conferences. Public engagement is something that is also encouraged throughout a PhD, such as running a stall at a science fair, or during lockdown I have been writing some scientific blog posts for our group website.

My typical day…

My typical day is far less interesting than it used to be, before the pandemic, as it mainly consists of sitting at a desk working on my computer.  The main tasks that keep me busy throughout the day are: reading academic papers, doing mathematics by hand, using Matlab, a mathematical computer software, to run simulations and having meetings over Zoom.  There is also usually a seminar to attend each day to give myself something different to think about.

The worst part of my job…

At the moment, like most jobs, the worst part is having to work from home. At the start of my PhD, I found that there was a very social atmosphere in the department, especially amongst the students. It’s been very hard to adapt to becoming isolated and working alone with no one around.

In terms of actual work, I would say the hardest part is having the patience to get something wrong over and over until eventually you get it right!

The best part of my job…

The opportunity to work at the forefront of a scientific field and collaborating with others with different scientific backgrounds exchanging ideas on a subject.

I love my job because…

I have always loved doing mathematics, so having the opportunity to study the subject full time as such an advanced level is a dream come true!

The feeling of making a breakthrough after many weeks/months of hard work is also very rewarding.

Advice to others… (What advice would you give to others who want a role like yours?)

To be a PhD student, you have to be willing to completely immerse yourself in a subject, so you must be sure it is going to be something that you enjoy (a lot!) to begin studying. Also, patience is key, the work you undertake is very difficult and it can take time to get your head around some ideas, so do not become disheartened if something does not come to you straight away.

I want to be remembered for…

Being a student who works hard, and is always there to offer a helping hand to anyone who might need it.

My Plan B… (If it wasn’t this job – what else would I be doing?)

I am not sure what job I would do outside of mathematical research as it is something that I enjoy very much and would like to do for a long time! I have always had a dream about opening my own little brewery though...

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Math degrees are becoming less accessible—and this is a problem for business, government and innovation

by Neil Saunders, The Conversation

There's a strange trend in mathematics education in England. Math is the most popular subject at A-level since overtaking English in 2014. It's taken by around 85,000 and 90,000 students a year.

But many universities—particularly lower-tariff institutions, which accept students with lower A-level grades—are recruiting far fewer students for math degrees. There's been a 50% drop in numbers of math students at the lowest tariff universities over the five years between 2017 and 2021. As a result, some universities are struggling to keep their mathematics departments open.

The total number of students studying math has remained largely static over the last decade. Prestigious Russell Group universities which require top A-level grades have increased their numbers of math students.

This trend in degree-level mathematics education is worrying. It restricts the accessibility of math degrees, especially to students from poorer backgrounds who are most likely to study at universities close to where they live . It perpetuates the myth that only those people who are unusually gifted at mathematics should study it—and that high-level math skills are not necessary for everyone else.

Research carried out in 2019 by King's College London and Ipsos found that half of the working age population had the numeracy skills expected of a child at primary school. Just as worrying was that despite this, 43% of those polled said "they would not like to improve their numeracy skills." Nearly a quarter (23%) stated that "they couldn't see how it would benefit them."

Mathematics has been fundamental in recent technological developments such as quantum computing , information security and artificial intelligence. A pipeline of more mathematics graduates from more diverse backgrounds will be essential if the UK is to remain a science and technology powerhouse into the future.

But math is also vital to a huge range of careers, including in business and government. In March 2024, campaign group Protect Pure Math held a summit to bring together experts from industry, academia and government to discuss concerns about poor math skills and the continuing importance of high-quality mathematics education.

Prior to the summit, the London Mathematical Society commissioned a survey of over 500 businesses to gauge their concerns about the potential lack of future graduates with strong mathematical skills.

They found that 72% of businesses agree they would benefit from more math graduates entering the workforce. And 75% would worry if UK universities shrunk or closed their math departments.

A 2023 report on MPs' staff found that skills in Stem subjects (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) were particularly hard to find among those who worked in Westminster. As many as 90% of those who had taken an undergraduate degree had studied humanities or social sciences. While these subject backgrounds are valuable, the lack of specialized math skills is stark.

Limited options

The mathematics department at Oxford Brookes has closed and other universities have seen recruitment reductions or other cuts. The resulting math deserts will remove the opportunity for students to gain a high-quality mathematics education in their local area. Universities should do their best to keep these departments open.

This might be possible if the way that degrees are set up changes. For many degree courses in countries such as the US and Australia, students are able to take a broad selection of subjects, from science and math subjects through to the humanities. Each are taught in their respective academic departments. This allows students to gain advanced knowledge and see how each field feeds into others.

This is scarcely possible in the UK, where students must choose a specialist and narrow degree program at aged 18.

Another possible solution would be to put core mathematics modules in degree disciplines that rely so heavily on it—such as engineering, economics, chemistry, physics, biology and computer science—and have them taught by specialist mathematicians. This would help keep mathematics departments open, while also ensuring that general mathematical literacy improves in the UK.

The relevance of mathematics and its vast range applications would be abundantly clear, better equipping every student with the necessary mathematical skills the workforce needs.

Provided by The Conversation

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29 Fort Worth city employees graduate from UTA program

Thursday, May 09, 2024 • Brian Lopez : contact

Michelle Swindle never envisioned herself earning a graduate degree, not to mention one in which her classes would be right across the street from where she works in downtown Fort Worth.

But this May, she’ll cross the stage at Globe Life Field in Arlington with 28 classmates who are fellow employees at the city of Fort Worth. The group of city employees is the first to graduate from UTA’s Master of Public Administration cohort program, which launched about three years ago.

“This cohort program has not only been convenient for me to advance my career, but I’ve been able to connect with a variety of city employees, fostering cross-department collaboration that will benefit our residents,” said Swindle, who works in the city’s IT department.

Swindle’s classmates say collaboration and innovation have been hallmarks of the program. Evan Roberts, development services assistant director and building official with the city of Fort Worth Planning and Development Department, said the experience was “transformative.”

“In my 20-plus years of government service, it has made the most significant impact on how I lead my team and collaborate with peers and stakeholders alike,” Roberts said. “I am better able to serve the communities of Fort Worth because of my time and training in the cohort.”

Michael Wollman, director of UTA Fort Worth, emphasized the innovative approach the University has adopted to align its educational programs with the unique needs of the community.

"Our collaboration with the city of Fort Worth was foundational in designing a program that not only addresses affordability but also fits seamlessly into the work schedules of our students by holding classes exclusively on Fridays," Wollman noted.

He further highlighted the tailored approach to curriculum development.

"In our discussions with the city, we asked, 'What are your specific needs?' Responding to this, our faculty developed a high-quality curriculum customized for these requirements," he said.

Wollman is enthusiastic about the future of this partnership and the potential for many more with employers in the region.

“We are dedicated to strengthening our relationship with Fort Worth and extending this collaborative model across all our programs to ensure they meet the evolving needs of our industry partners and the broader community.”

Fort Worth and UTA’s partnership is not only a way to make residents’ lives better, but also a move for the city to grow its own talent.

“The program is really a testament to the city's commitment to its workforce,” said Veronica Villegas, a member of the inaugural cohort. “It’s a huge investment, and that’s not lost on me.”

That commitment will continue, as the next Fort Worth cohort starts in the fall.

“The cohort is expanding and diversifying the pool of professionally trained managers working for the city of Fort Worth, thereby helping us to serve our residents and taxpayers more effectively,” said Fernando Costa, assistant city manager. “Furthermore, with the capstone research projects that participants are completing in their final semester, the cohort is providing us with findings and recommendations that will help us to address important and timely issues identified by our City Manager’s Office.”

David Coursey, associate professor and chair of the Public Affairs and Planning Department, said the program is the model forward for higher education institutions, one where universities make programs as accessible as possible while engaging the community around UTA.

“This program highlights how UTA is innovative in how we provide our educational services to our community,” Coursey said. “There are opportunities to take this model into other disciplines.”

Ming-Han Li, dean of College of Architecture, Planning and Public Affairs, said he is looking forward to continuing the University’s and CAPPA’s partnership with the city of Fort Worth.

"I am impressed by the success of the MPA Fort Worth cohort program that offers advanced education for the city staff,” Li said. “I appreciate Dr. Coursey's leadership and the dedication of several faculty members to the program.”

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A Plan to Remake the Middle East

While talks for a cease-fire between israel and hamas continue, another set of negotiations is happening behind the scenes..

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email [email protected] with any questions.

From New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.

[MUSIC CONTINUES]

Today, if and when Israel and Hamas reach a deal for a ceasefire fire, the United States will immediately turn to a different set of negotiations over a grand diplomatic bargain that it believes could rebuild Gaza and remake the Middle East. My colleague Michael Crowley has been reporting on that plan and explains why those involved in it believe they have so little time left to get it done.

It’s Wednesday, May 8.

Michael, I want to start with what feels like a pretty dizzying set of developments in this conflict over the past few days. Just walk us through them?

Well, over the weekend, there was an intense round of negotiations in an effort, backed by the United States, to reach a ceasefire in the Gaza war.

The latest ceasefire proposal would reportedly see as many as 33 Israeli hostages released in exchange for potentially hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.

US officials were very eager to get this deal.

Pressure for a ceasefire has been building ahead of a threatened Israeli assault on Rafah.

Because Israel has been threatening a military offensive in the Southern Palestinian city of Rafah, where a huge number of people are crowded.

Fleeing the violence to the North. And now they’re packed into Rafah. Exposed and vulnerable, they need to be protected.

And the US says it would be a humanitarian catastrophe on top of the emergency that’s already underway.

Breaking news this hour — very important breaking news. An official Hamas source has told The BBC that it does accept a proposal for a ceasefire deal in Gaza.

And for a few hours on Monday, it looked like there might have been a major breakthrough when Hamas put out a statement saying that it had accepted a negotiating proposal.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the ceasefire proposal does not meet his country’s requirements. But Netanyahu says he will send a delegation of mediators to continue those talks. Now, the terms —

But those hopes were dashed pretty quickly when the Israelis took a look at what Hamas was saying and said that it was not a proposal that they had agreed to. It had been modified.

And overnight —

Israeli troops stormed into Rafah. Video showing tanks crashing over a sign at the entrance of the city.

— the Israelis launched a partial invasion of Rafah.

It says Hamas used the area to launch a deadly attack on Israeli troops over the weekend.

And they have now secured a border crossing at the Southern end of Gaza and are conducting targeted strikes. This is not yet the full scale invasion that President Biden has adamantly warned Israel against undertaking, but it is an escalation by Israel.

So while all that drama might suggest that these talks are in big trouble, these talks are very much still alive and ongoing and there is still a possibility of a ceasefire deal.

And the reason that’s so important is not just to stop the fighting in Gaza and relieve the suffering there, but a ceasefire also opens the door to a grand diplomatic bargain, one that involves Israel and its Arab neighbors and the Palestinians, and would have very far-reaching implications.

And what is that grand bargain. Describe what you’re talking about?

Well, it’s incredibly ambitious. It would reshape Israel’s relationship with its Arab neighbors, principally Saudi Arabia. But it’s important to understand that this is a vision that has actually been around since well before October 7. This was a diplomatic project that President Biden had been investing in and negotiating actually in a very real and tangible way long before the Hamas attacks and the Gaza war.

And President Biden was looking to build on something that President Trump had done, which was a series of agreements that the Trump administration struck in which Israel and some of its Arab neighbors agreed to have normal diplomatic relations for the first time.

Right, they’re called the Abraham Accords.

That’s right. And, you know, Biden doesn’t like a lot of things, most things that Trump did. But he actually likes this, because the idea is that they contribute to stability and economic integration in the Middle East, the US likes Israel having friends and likes having a tight-knit alliance against Iran.

President Biden agrees with the Saudis and with the Israelis, that Iran is really the top threat to everybody here. So, how can you build on this? How can you expand it? Well, the next and biggest step would be normalizing relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

And the Saudis have made clear that they want to do this and that they’re ready to do this. They weren’t ready to do it in the Trump years. But Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, has made clear he wants to do it now.

So this kind of triangular deal began to take shape before October 7, in which the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia would enter this three way agreement in which everyone would get something that they wanted.

And just walk through what each side gets in this pre-October 7th version of these negotiations?

So for Israel, you get normalized ties with its most important Arab neighbor and really the country that sets the tone for the whole Muslim world, which is Saudi Arabia of course. It makes Israel feel safer and more secure. Again, it helps to build this alliance against Iran, which Israel considers its greatest threat, and it comes with benefits like economic ties and travel and tourism. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been very open, at least before October 7th, that this was his highest diplomatic and foreign policy priority.

For the Saudis, the rationale is similar when it comes to Israel. They think that it will bring stability. They like having a more explicitly close ally against Iran. There are economic and cultural benefits. Saudi Arabia is opening itself up in general, encouraging more tourism.

But I think that what’s most important to the Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, is what he can get from the United States. And what he has been asking for are a couple of essential things. One is a security agreement whose details have always been a little bit vague, but I think essentially come down to reliable arms supplies from the United States that are not going to be cut off or paused on a whim, as he felt happened when President Biden stopped arms deliveries in 2021 because of how Saudi was conducting its war in Yemen. The Saudis were furious about that.

Saudi Arabia also wants to start a domestic nuclear power program. They are planning for a very long-term future, possibly a post-oil future. And they need help getting a nuclear program off the ground.

And they want that from the US?

And they want that from the US.

Now, those are big asks from the us. But from the perspective of President Biden, there are some really enticing things about this possible agreement. One is that it will hopefully produce more stability in the region. Again, the US likes having a tight-knit alliance against Iran.

The US also wants to have a strong relationship with Saudi Arabia. You know, despite the anger at Mohammed bin Salman over the murder of the Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi, the Biden administration recognizes that given the Saudis control over global oil production and their strategic importance in the Middle East, they need to have a good relationship with them. And the administration has been worried about the influence of China in the region and with the Saudis in particular.

So this is an opportunity for the US to draw the Saudis closer. Whatever our moral qualms might be about bin Salman and the Saudi government, this is an opportunity to bring the Saudis closer, which is something the Biden administration sees as a strategic benefit.

All three of these countries — big, disparate countries that normally don’t see eye-to-eye, this was a win-win-win on a military, economic, and strategic front.

That’s right. But there was one important actor in the region that did not see itself as winning, and that was the Palestinians.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

First, it’s important to understand that the Palestinians have always expected that the Arab countries in the Middle East would insist that Israel recognize a Palestinian state before those countries were willing to essentially make total peace and have normal relations with Israel.

So when the Abraham Accords happened in the Trump administration, the Palestinians felt like they’d been thrown under the bus because the Abraham Accords gave them virtually nothing. But the Palestinians did still hold out hope that Saudi Arabia would be their savior. And for years, Saudi Arabia has said that Israel must give the Palestinians a state if there’s going to be a normal relationship between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Now the Palestinians see the Saudis in discussions with the US and Israel about a normalization agreement, and there appears to be very little on offer for the Palestinians. And they are feeling like they’re going to be left out in the cold here.

Right. And in the minds of the Palestinians, having already been essentially sold out by all their other Arab neighbors, the prospect that Saudi Arabia, of all countries, the most important Muslim Arab country in the region, would sell them out, had to be extremely painful.

It was a nightmare scenario for them. And in the minds of many analysts and US officials, this was a factor, one of many, in Hamas’s decision to stage the October 7th attacks.

Hamas, like other Palestinian leaders, was seeing the prospect that the Middle East was moving on and essentially, in their view, giving up on the Palestinian cause, and that Israel would be able to have friendly, normal relations with Arab countries around the region, and that it could continue with hardline policies toward the Palestinians and a refusal, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said publicly, to accept a Palestinian state.

Right. So Michael, once Hamas carries out the October 7th attacks in an effort to destroy a status quo that it thinks is leaving them less and less relevant, more and more hopeless, including potentially this prospect that Saudi Arabia is going to normalize relations with Israel, what happens to these pre-October 7th negotiations between the US, Saudi Arabia, and Israel?

Well, I think there was a snap assumption that these talks were dead and buried. That they couldn’t possibly survive a cataclysm like this.

But then something surprising happened. It became clear that all the parties were still determined to pull-off the normalization.

And most surprisingly of all, perhaps, was the continued eagerness of Saudi Arabia, which publicly was professing outrage over the Israeli response to the Hamas attacks, but privately was still very much engaged in these conversations and trying to move them forward.

And in fact, what has happened is that the scope of this effort has grown substantially. October 7th didn’t kill these talks. It actually made them bigger, more complicated, and some people would argue, more important than ever.

We’ll be right back.

Michael, walk us through what exactly happens to these three-way negotiations after October 7th that ends up making them, as you just said, more complicated and more important than ever?

Well, it’s more important than ever because of the incredible need in Gaza. And it’s going to take a deal like this and the approval of Saudi Arabia to unlock the kind of massive reconstruction project required to essentially rebuild Gaza from the rubble. Saudi Arabia and its Arab friends are also going to be instrumental in figuring out how Gaza is governed, and they might even provide troops to help secure it. None of those things are going to happen without a deal like this.

Fascinating.

But this is all much more complicated now because the price for a deal like this has gone up.

And by price, you mean?

What Israel would have to give up. [MUSIC PLAYING]

From Saudi Arabia’s perspective, you have an Arab population that is furious at Israel. It now feels like a really hard time to do a normalization deal with the Israelis. It was never going to be easy, but this is about as bad a time to do it as there has been in a generation at least. And I think that President Biden and the people around him understand that the status quo between Israel and the Palestinians is intolerable and it is going to lead to chaos and violence indefinitely.

So now you have two of the three parties to this agreement, the Saudis and the Americans, basically asking a new price after October 7th, and saying to the Israelis, if we’re going to do this deal, it has to not only do something for the Palestinians, it has to do something really big. You have to commit to the creation of a Palestinian state. Now, I’ll be specific and say that what you hear the Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, say is that the agreement has to include an irreversible time-bound path to a Palestinian state.

We don’t know exactly what that looks like, but it’s some kind of a firm commitment, the likes of which the world and certainly the Israelis have not made before.

Something that was very much not present in the pre-October 7th vision of this negotiation. So much so that, as we just talked about, the Palestinians were left feeling completely out in the cold and furious at it.

That’s right. There was no sign that people were thinking that ambitiously about the Palestinians in this deal before October 7th. And the Palestinians certainly felt like they weren’t going to get much out of it. And that has completely changed now.

So, Michael, once this big new dimension after October 7th, which is the insistence by Saudi Arabia and the US that there be a Palestinian state or a path to a Palestinian state, what is the reaction specifically from Israel, which is, of course, the third major party to this entire conversation?

Well, Israel, or at least its political leadership, hates it. You know, this is just an extremely tough sell in Israel. It would have been a tough sell before October 7th. It’s even harder now.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is completely unrepentantly open in saying that there’s not going to be a Palestinian state on his watch. He won’t accept it. He says that it’s a strategic risk to his country. He says that it would, in effect, reward Hamas.

His argument is that terrorism has forced a conversation about statehood onto the table that wasn’t there before October 7th. Sure, it’s always in the background. It’s a perennial issue in global affairs, but it was not something certainly that the US and Israel’s Arab neighbors were actively pushing. Netanyahu also has — you know, he governs with the support of very right-wing members of a political coalition that he has cobbled together. And that coalition is quite likely to fall apart if he does embrace a Palestinian state or a path to a Palestinian state.

Now, he might be able to cobble together some sort of alternative, but it creates a political crisis for him.

And finally, you know, I think in any conversation about Israel, it’s worth bearing in mind something you hear from senior US officials these days, which is that although there is often finger pointing at Netanyahu and a desire to blame Netanyahu as this obstructionist who won’t agree to deals, what they say is Netanyahu is largely reflecting his population and the political establishment of his country, not just the right-wingers in his coalition who are clearly extremist.

But actually the prevailing views of the Israeli public. And the Israeli public and their political leaders across the spectrum right now with few exceptions, are not interested in talking about a Palestinian state when there are still dozens and dozens of Israeli hostages in tunnels beneath Gaza.

So it very much looks like this giant agreement that once seemed doable before October 7th might be more important to everyone involved than ever, given that it’s a plan for rebuilding Gaza and potentially preventing future October 7th’s from happening, but because of this higher price that Israel would have to pay, which is the acceptance of a Palestinian state, it seems from everything you’re saying, that this is more and more out of reach than ever before and hard to imagine happening in the immediate future. So if the people negotiating it are being honest, Michael, are they ready to acknowledge that it doesn’t look like this is going to happen?

Well, not quite yet. As time goes by, they certainly say it’s getting harder and harder, but they’re still trying, and they still think there’s a chance. But both the Saudis and the Biden administration understand that there’s very little time left to do this.

Well, what do you mean there’s very little time left? It would seem like time might benefit this negotiation in that it might give Israel distance from October 7th to think potentially differently about a Palestinian state?

Potentially. But Saudi Arabia wants to get this deal done in the Biden administration because Mohammed bin Salman has concluded this has to be done under a Democratic president.

Because Democrats in Congress are going to be very reluctant to approve a security agreement between the United States and Saudi Arabia.

It’s important to understand that if there is a security agreement, that’s something Congress is going to have to approve. And you’re just not going to get enough Democrats in Congress to support a deal with Saudi Arabia, who a lot of Democrats don’t like to begin with, because they see them as human rights abusers.

But if a Democratic president is asking them to do it, they’re much more likely to go along.

Right. So Saudi Arabia fears that if Biden loses and Trump is president, that those same Democrats would balk at this deal in a way that they wouldn’t if it were being negotiated under President Biden?

Exactly. Now, from President Biden’s perspective, politically, think about a president who’s running for re-election, who is presiding right now over chaos in the Middle East, who doesn’t seem to have good answers for the Israeli-Palestinian question, this is an opportunity for President Biden to deliver what could be at least what he would present as a diplomatic masterstroke that does multiple things at once, including creating a new pathway for Israel and the Palestinians to coexist, to break through the logjam, even as he is also improving Israel’s relations with Saudi Arabia.

So Biden and the Crown Prince hope that they can somehow persuade Bibi Netanyahu that in spite of all the reasons that he thinks this is a terrible idea, that this is a bet worth taking on Israel’s and the region’s long-term security and future?

That’s right. Now, no one has explained very clearly exactly how this is going to work, and it’s probably going to require artful diplomacy, possibly even a scenario where the Israelis would agree to something that maybe means one thing to them and means something else to other people. But Biden officials refuse to say that it’s hopeless and they refuse to essentially take Netanyahu’s preliminary no’s for an answer. And they still see some way that they can thread this incredibly narrow needle.

Michael, I’m curious about a constituency that we haven’t been talking about because they’re not at the table in these discussions that we are talking about here. And that would be Hamas. How does Hamas feel about the prospect of such a deal like this ever taking shape. Do they see it as any kind of a victory and vindication for what they did on October 7th?

So it’s hard to know exactly what Hamas’s leadership is thinking. I think they can feel two things. I think they can feel on the one hand, that they have established themselves as the champions of the Palestinian people who struck a blow against Israel and against a diplomatic process that was potentially going to leave the Palestinians out in the cold.

At the same time, Hamas has no interest in the kind of two-state solution that the US is trying to promote. They think Israel should be destroyed. They think the Palestinian state should cover the entire geography of what is now Israel, and they want to lead a state like that. And that’s not something that the US, Saudi Arabia, or anyone else is going to tolerate.

So what Hamas wants is to fight, to be the leader of the Palestinian people, and to destroy Israel. And they’re not interested in any sort of a peace process or statehood process.

It seems very clear from everything you’ve said here that neither Israel nor Hamas is ready to have the conversation about a grand bargain diplomatic program. And I wonder if that inevitably has any bearing on the ceasefire negotiations that are going on right now between the two of them that are supposed to bring this conflict to some sort of an end, even if it’s just temporary?

Because if, as you said, Michael, a ceasefire opens the door to this larger diplomatic solution, and these two players don’t necessarily want that larger diplomatic solution, doesn’t that inevitably impact their enthusiasm for even reaching a ceasefire?

Well, it certainly doesn’t help. You know, this is such a hellish problem. And of course, you first have the question of whether Israel and Hamas can make a deal on these immediate issues, including the hostages, Palestinian prisoners, and what the Israeli military is going to do, how long a ceasefire might last.

But on top of that, you have these much bigger diplomatic questions that are looming over them. And it’s not clear that either side is ready to turn and face those bigger questions.

So while for the Biden administration and for Saudi Arabia, this is a way out of this crisis, these larger diplomatic solutions, it’s not clear that it’s a conversation that the two parties that are actually at war here are prepared to start having.

Well, Michael, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

On Tuesday afternoon, under intense pressure from the US, delegations from Israel and Hamas arrived in Cairo to resume negotiations over a potential ceasefire. But in a statement, Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made clear that even with the talks underway, his government would, quote, “continue to wage war against Hamas.”

Here’s what else you need to know today. In a dramatic day of testimony, Stormy Daniels offered explicit details about an alleged sexual encounter with Donald Trump that ultimately led to the hush money payment at the center of his trial. Daniels testified that Trump answered the door in pajamas, that he told her not to worry that he was married, and that he did not use a condom when they had sex.

That prompted lawyers for Trump to seek a mistrial based on what they called prejudicial testimony. But the judge in the case rejected that request. And,

We’ve seen a ferocious surge of anti-Semitism in America and around the world.

In a speech on Tuesday honoring victims of the Holocaust, President Biden condemned what he said was the alarming rise of anti-Semitism in the United States after the October 7th attacks on Israel. And he expressed worry that too many Americans were already forgetting the horrors of that attack.

The Jewish community, I want you to know I see your fear, your hurt, and your pain. Let me reassure you, as your president, you’re not alone. You belong. You always have and you always will.

Today’s episode was produced by Nina Feldman, Clare Toeniskoetter, and Rikki Novetsky. It was edited by Liz O. Baylen, contains original music by Marion Lozano, Elisheba Ittoop, and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

That’s it for The Daily. I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.

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• May 6, 2024   •   29:23 R.F.K. Jr.’s Battle to Get on the Ballot
• May 3, 2024   •   25:33 The Protesters and the President
• May 2, 2024   •   29:13 Biden Loosens Up on Weed
• May 1, 2024   •   35:16 The New Abortion Fight Before the Supreme Court
• April 30, 2024   •   27:40 The Secret Push That Could Ban TikTok
• April 29, 2024   •   47:53 Trump 2.0: What a Second Trump Presidency Would Bring
• April 26, 2024   •   21:50 Harvey Weinstein Conviction Thrown Out
• April 25, 2024   •   40:33 The Crackdown on Student Protesters
• April 24, 2024   •   32:18 Is $60 Billion Enough to Save Ukraine?

Hosted by Michael Barbaro

Featuring Michael Crowley

Produced by Nina Feldman ,  Clare Toeniskoetter and Rikki Novetsky

Edited by Liz O. Baylen

Original music by Marion Lozano ,  Elisheba Ittoop and Dan Powell

Engineered by Alyssa Moxley

Listen and follow The Daily Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | YouTube

If and when Israel and Hamas reach a deal for a cease-fire, the United States will immediately turn to a different set of negotiations over a grand diplomatic bargain that it believes could rebuild Gaza and remake the Middle East.

Michael Crowley, who covers the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The Times, explains why those involved in this plan believe they have so little time left to get it done.

On today’s episode

Michael Crowley , a reporter covering the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The New York Times.

Background reading :

Talks on a cease-fire in the Gaza war are once again at an uncertain stage .

Here’s how the push for a deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia looked before Oct. 7 .

From early in the war, President Biden has said that a lasting resolution requires a “real” Palestinian state .

Here’s what Israeli officials are discussing about postwar Gaza.

There are a lot of ways to listen to The Daily. Here’s how.

We aim to make transcripts available the next workday after an episode’s publication. You can find them at the top of the page.

The Daily is made by Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Sydney Harper, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Ben Calhoun, Susan Lee, Lexie Diao, Mary Wilson, Alex Stern, Dan Farrell, Sophia Lanman, Shannon Lin, Diane Wong, Devon Taylor, Alyssa Moxley, Summer Thomad, Olivia Natt, Daniel Ramirez and Brendan Klinkenberg.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Paula Szuchman, Lisa Tobin, Larissa Anderson, Julia Simon, Sofia Milan, Mahima Chablani, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Jeffrey Miranda, Renan Borelli, Maddy Masiello, Isabella Anderson and Nina Lassam.

Michael Crowley covers the State Department and U.S. foreign policy for The Times. He has reported from nearly three dozen countries and often travels with the secretary of state. More about Michael Crowley

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